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What would convince you that neonicotinoids kill bees? A study recently done at Purdue University perhaps?[1] Pesticides are absurdly politicized. The amount

What would convince you that neonicotinoids kill bees? A study recently done at Purdue University perhaps?[1] Pesticides are absurdly politicized. The amount of ridicule and PR flak pesticide critics get is insane. [1] http://pollinatorstewardship.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Krupke-et-al-2017-neonic-corn-seeds.pdf http://pollinatorstewardship.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/...

exabrial 9y ago
Indeed, so sad, because as things become politcal, it goes from science to pop culture, and lies become truths because they are repeated so often. Thanks for the link to the study. I had not read that one yet. To give a counterpoint, this article on slate I thought was very convincing in the other direction: http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2017/06/the_data_do_not_support_the_idea_that_neonics_hurt_bees.html http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/201...
- kenny87 9y ago
  >>The data were rife with other contradictions. Worker bees and drones in Britain struggled to survive the winter, but the same variety of wild bees increased in Germany. Egg production also increased in Germany but fell in Hungary. It seems a lot of bee studies only look at honey bees, but there are some 4,000 types of native bees in North America, some of which are better pollinators then the non-native European honey bee and secrete silk instead of honey. Yet our urban spaces don't do a great job of providing good habitats for native species to thrive. So that's a least part of the solution to the bee problem, not just banning a pesticide. I could go on but just check out this great SciFri episode on this topic: https://www.sciencefriday.com/segments/beyond-the-hive-the-wonderful-world-of-native-bees/ https://www.sciencefriday.com/segments/beyond-the-hive-the-w.... And do your part by supporting your local, native bee species.
tptacek 9y ago
What is it that you think that Purdue study says? It doesn't contradict anything that the parent comment said. Their comment seems like a pretty straightforward recitation of the situation in the US: feral honey bees --- an introduced, non-native species --- were eradicated by the Varroa destructor mite, decades ago.
lostlogin 9y ago
I don’t dispute that the spray kills bees. Honey bee numbers are so high here that the numbers are causing problems (decreased honey harvests, disease outbreaks and worker shortages). Honey bees are not in decline her in New Zealand.
- ajmurmann 9y ago
  Does New Zealand have a smaller percentage of farmland or even cultivated land in general than Europe? Maybe there is less pesticide usage per area?
  - lostlogin 9y ago
    I would guess so. Particularly important for the honey industry here is regenerating bush, as the quick growing manuka supplies the bees with the nectar for the lucrative honey. The use of neonicatinoids is quite heavily regulated though traces do appear in honey. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11934014 http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objecti... The other interesting development is the use of Fipronil to kill wasps. The usage has really helped but you’d have to wonder about having more of it in the environment.

exabrial 9y ago

Indeed, so sad, because as things become politcal, it goes from science to pop culture, and lies become truths because they are repeated so often. Thanks for the link to the study. I had not read that one yet. To give a counterpoint, this article on slate I thought was very convincing in the other direction: http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2017/06/the_data_do_not_support_the_idea_that_neonics_hurt_bees.html http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/201...

kenny87 9y ago
>>The data were rife with other contradictions. Worker bees and drones in Britain struggled to survive the winter, but the same variety of wild bees increased in Germany. Egg production also increased in Germany but fell in Hungary. It seems a lot of bee studies only look at honey bees, but there are some 4,000 types of native bees in North America, some of which are better pollinators then the non-native European honey bee and secrete silk instead of honey. Yet our urban spaces don't do a great job of providing good habitats for native species to thrive. So that's a least part of the solution to the bee problem, not just banning a pesticide. I could go on but just check out this great SciFri episode on this topic: https://www.sciencefriday.com/segments/beyond-the-hive-the-wonderful-world-of-native-bees/ https://www.sciencefriday.com/segments/beyond-the-hive-the-w.... And do your part by supporting your local, native bee species.

tptacek 9y ago

What is it that you think that Purdue study says? It doesn't contradict anything that the parent comment said. Their comment seems like a pretty straightforward recitation of the situation in the US: feral honey bees --- an introduced, non-native species --- were eradicated by the Varroa destructor mite, decades ago.

lostlogin 9y ago

I don’t dispute that the spray kills bees. Honey bee numbers are so high here that the numbers are causing problems (decreased honey harvests, disease outbreaks and worker shortages). Honey bees are not in decline her in New Zealand.

ajmurmann 9y ago
Does New Zealand have a smaller percentage of farmland or even cultivated land in general than Europe? Maybe there is less pesticide usage per area?
- lostlogin 9y ago
  I would guess so. Particularly important for the honey industry here is regenerating bush, as the quick growing manuka supplies the bees with the nectar for the lucrative honey. The use of neonicatinoids is quite heavily regulated though traces do appear in honey. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11934014 http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objecti... The other interesting development is the use of Fipronil to kill wasps. The usage has really helped but you’d have to wonder about having more of it in the environment.