4 ms·

> The answer likely depends on whether you're a man or a woman. From the male's POV changing the game benefits us since there's less work to do. If you're a wom

> The answer likely depends on whether you're a man or a woman. From the male's POV changing the game benefits us since there's less work to do. If you're a woman then it's the opposite and a net negative. I don't have a horse in that race, but I do have an ethical concern. If you tell men that they're supposed to try, then it's likely that a lack of success will be met with trying harder. What does this result in, practically speaking? Being more forward? Being more touchy? Being more in their face putting in the effort? a.k.a. creepy, stalkerish behavior and possibly an increase in the incidence of sexual assault and/or harassment. That's the concern I have with the "should" position.

rarec 8y ago
That results in what is basically the dating schema for the last century. Men put forth the effort, and women choose the winners. If a man does not try, he does not find anything. If a woman does not try, she just gets poor suitors.
maroonblazer 8y ago
That's an interesting definition of "trying harder". I think the person employing that strategy would quickly find that it doesn't work as well as some other ways of trying harder. Those could include: Inhabiting different environments. E.g. a female friend suggested I take up yoga as yoga classes tend to be more/mostly female. Within a few classes I was dating a woman I met there. "Putting it out there" by which I mean proactively telling friends that you're interested in meeting women. This was suggested to me and my first reaction was "That's silly. Everyone knows I'm single and looking..." but in fact most people - even your friends - aren't prioritizing your dating life. If you mention it to them it sometimes can trigger a "Hey, that reminds me, I know someone who's also single...you two might be a good match." Increasing your velocity. At the end of the day meeting someone you want to date is a numbers game. The more women you meet the more likely you are to find a match. "Trying harder" can simply be making more attempts to meet more women. I.e. trying harder doesn't have to be creepy.
- CiPHPerCoder 8y ago
  > That's an interesting definition of "trying harder". See also: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16898821 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16898821 > I think the person employing that strategy would quickly find that it doesn't work as well as some other ways of trying harder. You'd think, but in practice, not always. Aren't humans amazing? I think if we're being prescriptive, I think working towards a culture where all parties involved do both choosing and trying. Put forth the effort to get to know people, then choose who you want to be romantically/sexually involved with among the people for whom there is even a remote mutual desire.
  - maroonblazer 8y ago
    The population imbalance in China/India is a separate issue. >Aren't humans amazing? I wasn't suggesting it's not tried. Simply that it's unlikely to be successful and thus will find fewer adherents. >working towards a culture where all parties involved do both choosing and trying This happens already. Women pursue men all the time, they just don't have to expend as much energy as men do.
    - CiPHPerCoder 8y ago
      > The population imbalance in China/India is a separate issue. The observable consequences of this imbalance offers insight into human nature. The article and comments in that thread delve far into them. It's worth reading.
therealdrag0 8y ago
You could also argue it's a small contribution ( don't want to give it too much credit) to the creation of `incel` which now has driven multiple frustrated young men to commit mass murders.

rarec 8y ago

That results in what is basically the dating schema for the last century. Men put forth the effort, and women choose the winners. If a man does not try, he does not find anything. If a woman does not try, she just gets poor suitors.

maroonblazer 8y ago

That's an interesting definition of "trying harder". I think the person employing that strategy would quickly find that it doesn't work as well as some other ways of trying harder. Those could include: Inhabiting different environments. E.g. a female friend suggested I take up yoga as yoga classes tend to be more/mostly female. Within a few classes I was dating a woman I met there. "Putting it out there" by which I mean proactively telling friends that you're interested in meeting women. This was suggested to me and my first reaction was "That's silly. Everyone knows I'm single and looking..." but in fact most people - even your friends - aren't prioritizing your dating life. If you mention it to them it sometimes can trigger a "Hey, that reminds me, I know someone who's also single...you two might be a good match." Increasing your velocity. At the end of the day meeting someone you want to date is a numbers game. The more women you meet the more likely you are to find a match. "Trying harder" can simply be making more attempts to meet more women. I.e. trying harder doesn't have to be creepy.

CiPHPerCoder 8y ago
> That's an interesting definition of "trying harder". See also: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16898821 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16898821 > I think the person employing that strategy would quickly find that it doesn't work as well as some other ways of trying harder. You'd think, but in practice, not always. Aren't humans amazing? I think if we're being prescriptive, I think working towards a culture where all parties involved do both choosing and trying. Put forth the effort to get to know people, then choose who you want to be romantically/sexually involved with among the people for whom there is even a remote mutual desire.
- maroonblazer 8y ago
  The population imbalance in China/India is a separate issue. >Aren't humans amazing? I wasn't suggesting it's not tried. Simply that it's unlikely to be successful and thus will find fewer adherents. >working towards a culture where all parties involved do both choosing and trying This happens already. Women pursue men all the time, they just don't have to expend as much energy as men do.
  - CiPHPerCoder 8y ago
    > The population imbalance in China/India is a separate issue. The observable consequences of this imbalance offers insight into human nature. The article and comments in that thread delve far into them. It's worth reading.

therealdrag0 8y ago

You could also argue it's a small contribution ( don't want to give it too much credit) to the creation of `incel` which now has driven multiple frustrated young men to commit mass murders.