5 ms·

> It's the man's job to try, and it's the woman's job to choose. Is that a descriptive or prescriptive statement? Or put another way: Are you observing and re

> It's the man's job to try, and it's the woman's job to choose. Is that a descriptive or prescriptive statement? Or put another way: Are you observing and remarking on cultural norms, or stating "This is how things should be?" I only ask because when someone says "It's X's job to [whatever]" the connotation is "X should [whatever]" but the context surrounding this made it ambiguous.

maroonblazer 8y ago
Not the parent but it's definitely descriptive. Should it be that way? The answer likely depends on whether you're a man or a woman. From the male's POV changing the game benefits us since there's less work to do. If you're a woman then it's the opposite and a net negative. This sexual dynamic evolved for a reason, so changing it seems like the epitome of an uphill battle.
- watwut 8y ago
  The one making the choice is more likely to end up with preferred partner. The one accepting/rejecting existing proposal has less chance to end up with most preferred partner.
  - nojvek 8y ago
    Women can make choices too. It’s just that it’s frowned upon when a woman makes the first move. That’s your downside. Men can brag Baku their sexual lives and even exaggerate it. Women have to do the opposite and be very secretive. Perhaps it ties to the dynamic. Women are buyers. Men are sellers. Easy to spend $1000 to buy things, hard to earn $1000 to sell something. Western dating is a totally different beast than other countries.
    - watwut 8y ago
      I compared advantages of active vs passive person in that model - that holds true regardless of which gender is on which side. I think there are three different datings - the one when you look for partner, the one where you seek temporary fun and then the one when you seek brag points/social status through trophy partner you don't really care about. These discussions tend to confuse them.
- CiPHPerCoder 8y ago
  > The answer likely depends on whether you're a man or a woman. From the male's POV changing the game benefits us since there's less work to do. If you're a woman then it's the opposite and a net negative. I don't have a horse in that race, but I do have an ethical concern. If you tell men that they're supposed to try, then it's likely that a lack of success will be met with trying harder. What does this result in, practically speaking? Being more forward? Being more touchy? Being more in their face putting in the effort? a.k.a. creepy, stalkerish behavior and possibly an increase in the incidence of sexual assault and/or harassment. That's the concern I have with the "should" position.
  - rarec 8y ago
    That results in what is basically the dating schema for the last century. Men put forth the effort, and women choose the winners. If a man does not try, he does not find anything. If a woman does not try, she just gets poor suitors.
  - maroonblazer 8y ago
    That's an interesting definition of "trying harder". I think the person employing that strategy would quickly find that it doesn't work as well as some other ways of trying harder. Those could include: Inhabiting different environments. E.g. a female friend suggested I take up yoga as yoga classes tend to be more/mostly female. Within a few classes I was dating a woman I met there. "Putting it out there" by which I mean proactively telling friends that you're interested in meeting women. This was suggested to me and my first reaction was "That's silly. Everyone knows I'm single and looking..." but in fact most people - even your friends - aren't prioritizing your dating life. If you mention it to them it sometimes can trigger a "Hey, that reminds me, I know someone who's also single...you two might be a good match." Increasing your velocity. At the end of the day meeting someone you want to date is a numbers game. The more women you meet the more likely you are to find a match. "Trying harder" can simply be making more attempts to meet more women. I.e. trying harder doesn't have to be creepy.
    - CiPHPerCoder 8y ago
      > That's an interesting definition of "trying harder". See also: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16898821 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16898821 > I think the person employing that strategy would quickly find that it doesn't work as well as some other ways of trying harder. You'd think, but in practice, not always. Aren't humans amazing? I think if we're being prescriptive, I think working towards a culture where all parties involved do both choosing and trying. Put forth the effort to get to know people, then choose who you want to be romantically/sexually involved with among the people for whom there is even a remote mutual desire.

maroonblazer 8y ago

Not the parent but it's definitely descriptive. Should it be that way? The answer likely depends on whether you're a man or a woman. From the male's POV changing the game benefits us since there's less work to do. If you're a woman then it's the opposite and a net negative. This sexual dynamic evolved for a reason, so changing it seems like the epitome of an uphill battle.

watwut 8y ago
The one making the choice is more likely to end up with preferred partner. The one accepting/rejecting existing proposal has less chance to end up with most preferred partner.
- nojvek 8y ago
  Women can make choices too. It’s just that it’s frowned upon when a woman makes the first move. That’s your downside. Men can brag Baku their sexual lives and even exaggerate it. Women have to do the opposite and be very secretive. Perhaps it ties to the dynamic. Women are buyers. Men are sellers. Easy to spend $1000 to buy things, hard to earn $1000 to sell something. Western dating is a totally different beast than other countries.
  - watwut 8y ago
    I compared advantages of active vs passive person in that model - that holds true regardless of which gender is on which side. I think there are three different datings - the one when you look for partner, the one where you seek temporary fun and then the one when you seek brag points/social status through trophy partner you don't really care about. These discussions tend to confuse them.
CiPHPerCoder 8y ago
> The answer likely depends on whether you're a man or a woman. From the male's POV changing the game benefits us since there's less work to do. If you're a woman then it's the opposite and a net negative. I don't have a horse in that race, but I do have an ethical concern. If you tell men that they're supposed to try, then it's likely that a lack of success will be met with trying harder. What does this result in, practically speaking? Being more forward? Being more touchy? Being more in their face putting in the effort? a.k.a. creepy, stalkerish behavior and possibly an increase in the incidence of sexual assault and/or harassment. That's the concern I have with the "should" position.
- rarec 8y ago
  That results in what is basically the dating schema for the last century. Men put forth the effort, and women choose the winners. If a man does not try, he does not find anything. If a woman does not try, she just gets poor suitors.
- maroonblazer 8y ago
  That's an interesting definition of "trying harder". I think the person employing that strategy would quickly find that it doesn't work as well as some other ways of trying harder. Those could include: Inhabiting different environments. E.g. a female friend suggested I take up yoga as yoga classes tend to be more/mostly female. Within a few classes I was dating a woman I met there. "Putting it out there" by which I mean proactively telling friends that you're interested in meeting women. This was suggested to me and my first reaction was "That's silly. Everyone knows I'm single and looking..." but in fact most people - even your friends - aren't prioritizing your dating life. If you mention it to them it sometimes can trigger a "Hey, that reminds me, I know someone who's also single...you two might be a good match." Increasing your velocity. At the end of the day meeting someone you want to date is a numbers game. The more women you meet the more likely you are to find a match. "Trying harder" can simply be making more attempts to meet more women. I.e. trying harder doesn't have to be creepy.
  - CiPHPerCoder 8y ago
    > That's an interesting definition of "trying harder". See also: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16898821 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16898821 > I think the person employing that strategy would quickly find that it doesn't work as well as some other ways of trying harder. You'd think, but in practice, not always. Aren't humans amazing? I think if we're being prescriptive, I think working towards a culture where all parties involved do both choosing and trying. Put forth the effort to get to know people, then choose who you want to be romantically/sexually involved with among the people for whom there is even a remote mutual desire.