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But playing the game of the higher offer is something that always disturbed me. Not me. Here's my experience (many times): Phase I Me: I deserve mor

by edw519 16y ago

But playing the game of the higher offer is something that always disturbed me. Not me. Here's my experience (many times): Phase I Me: I deserve more $ because <27 good reasons>. Boss: I can't because <14 stupid reasons>. Phase II Me: I quit (not bluffing). Boss: You can't. Here's more $.

siculars 16y ago
I second your experience, edw519. Unfortunately, often the only way to get management to loosen the purse strings is to come back with another offer from another firm. This exact situation has happened to me. Sad, really.
- antirez 16y ago
  The problem is understanding if the inability of a given company to recognize the value of an employer is a good enough reason to move away...
  - siculars 16y ago
    Agreed. It may well be. I took the counter offer from the original company for various reasons. But it left me with a bad taste in my mouth. I'm not sure if I would have made the same decision had I had it to do over. When a company does not value your contribution until there is a competing offer you feel a bit taken for granted and unappreciated. Any academic work in the HR/recruiting field will tell you that money is not the sole motivator or even the main motivator. Under-appreciation is a great way to lose employees.
Andys 16y ago
Phase III Boss: You're fired. We just offered you more $$ temporarily so we could have time to find a replacement because we no longer trust you after you quit the first time.
- edw519 16y ago
  Boss: You're fired. Is this your experience, Andys, are you speculating, or is this just a joke? This has never happened to me or anyone I know. Loyalty doesn't mean shit anymore and everyone knows it. On the other hand, my experience has shown that having the balls to stand up for yourself and do whatever you have to do earns new respect. Phase III (what really happens) Boss treats you better than ever before.
  - jasonkester 16y ago
    I've seen it happen (Phase 3: fired), though fortunately not to me. - company scrambles to come up with a good counteroffer, with more money and a transfer onto a more exciting project. - company decides it needs to lay people off - "more exiting project" manager sees some new guy on his roster, making more than everybody else. Seems like a safe choice for the axe. So in a few months, you can go from having two really good offers to being on unemployment and having your best possible alternative being a company that you've left hanging. The rule in situations like this is to always go to the new company. You can play offers off each other if you like, but the risk of staying put is just not worth it.
    - maigret 16y ago
      Well you also have the risk of not fitting into the new company, risking the same.
      - jasonkester 16y ago
        Not so much. When you leave a job amicably, you keep lots of options open, including coming back at some point. You still have plenty of goodwill with everybody there. When you go through the hiring process at a company to the point where they make you an offer, then give the impression that the only reason you put them through it all was to get yourself a raise at your current job, you piss a bunch of people off, and likely burn that bridge forever. Finally, having made it in the door at company 2, you now have a bunch of new contacts that will be valuable next time you're on the market. And if that next time is only a couple months in the future, you'll have at least a couple people who were your advocates and now feel they owe you something for convincing you to leave a perfectly good job for whatever dysfunctional office politics caused you not to "fit in" at the new place.
antirez 16y ago
Ok, this is what I think should be the best behavior: Phase I Me: I deserve more $ because ... Boss: I can't because ... Me: Ok Phase II You look for a better job where you can get what you deserve, without telling your company about it. Phase III I found the job. Me: Sorry, I'm leaving, I found a job with the right $ Boss: Ok, we can match the offer Me: no way, I'm leaving.
- edw519 16y ago
  this is what I think should be the best behavior This is exactly what not to do. Don't ever let your employer know you're unhappy, disloyal, or "looking". This leaves you totally exposed, walking a tightrope without a safety net. You'll piss off your boss for no good reason and only reconfirm your current situation by not already having another offer. If you're so damn good, then why don't you have another offer? There's a big difference between what should work and what does work. On the job, you and your employer are teammates. When it comes to your renumeration, you are adversaries. Don't ever forget that.
- jasonkester 16y ago
  Minus the Phase II (never tell them you're planning to leave), I've done this a couple times with good success. It's healthy for both sides. You get a better job and a bit of self-satisfied pleasure during the "no, you lost me" speech. They get to understand why they lost a good worker, and the real costs associated with it. With luck, the team you left behind will have a better environment, since just maybe management will learn something.
  - antirez 16y ago
    Yep sorry I was not clear, in phase II you are not supposed to tell you are looking for another job.
    - sushrutbidwai 16y ago
      People also tend to use interviewing to gauge what is current market price for talent they have. Specially when economic conditions start looking to change for better.
hugh3 16y ago
I'd love to see a boss try that in reverse. "Hi, employee. Just wanted to let you know we've started interviewing for your position because we think we can find someone just as good to do it for less. Unless, of course, you'd like to take a pay cut..." edit: A boss, but not my boss.

by edw519 16y ago

siculars 16y ago

I second your experience, edw519. Unfortunately, often the only way to get management to loosen the purse strings is to come back with another offer from another firm. This exact situation has happened to me. Sad, really.

antirez 16y ago
The problem is understanding if the inability of a given company to recognize the value of an employer is a good enough reason to move away...
- siculars 16y ago
  Agreed. It may well be. I took the counter offer from the original company for various reasons. But it left me with a bad taste in my mouth. I'm not sure if I would have made the same decision had I had it to do over. When a company does not value your contribution until there is a competing offer you feel a bit taken for granted and unappreciated. Any academic work in the HR/recruiting field will tell you that money is not the sole motivator or even the main motivator. Under-appreciation is a great way to lose employees.

Andys 16y ago

Phase III Boss: You're fired. We just offered you more $$ temporarily so we could have time to find a replacement because we no longer trust you after you quit the first time.

edw519 16y ago
Boss: You're fired. Is this your experience, Andys, are you speculating, or is this just a joke? This has never happened to me or anyone I know. Loyalty doesn't mean shit anymore and everyone knows it. On the other hand, my experience has shown that having the balls to stand up for yourself and do whatever you have to do earns new respect. Phase III (what really happens) Boss treats you better than ever before.
- jasonkester 16y ago
  I've seen it happen (Phase 3: fired), though fortunately not to me. - company scrambles to come up with a good counteroffer, with more money and a transfer onto a more exciting project. - company decides it needs to lay people off - "more exiting project" manager sees some new guy on his roster, making more than everybody else. Seems like a safe choice for the axe. So in a few months, you can go from having two really good offers to being on unemployment and having your best possible alternative being a company that you've left hanging. The rule in situations like this is to always go to the new company. You can play offers off each other if you like, but the risk of staying put is just not worth it.
  - maigret 16y ago
    Well you also have the risk of not fitting into the new company, risking the same.
    - jasonkester 16y ago
      Not so much. When you leave a job amicably, you keep lots of options open, including coming back at some point. You still have plenty of goodwill with everybody there. When you go through the hiring process at a company to the point where they make you an offer, then give the impression that the only reason you put them through it all was to get yourself a raise at your current job, you piss a bunch of people off, and likely burn that bridge forever. Finally, having made it in the door at company 2, you now have a bunch of new contacts that will be valuable next time you're on the market. And if that next time is only a couple months in the future, you'll have at least a couple people who were your advocates and now feel they owe you something for convincing you to leave a perfectly good job for whatever dysfunctional office politics caused you not to "fit in" at the new place.

antirez 16y ago

Ok, this is what I think should be the best behavior: Phase I Me: I deserve more $ because ... Boss: I can't because ... Me: Ok Phase II You look for a better job where you can get what you deserve, without telling your company about it. Phase III I found the job. Me: Sorry, I'm leaving, I found a job with the right $ Boss: Ok, we can match the offer Me: no way, I'm leaving.

edw519 16y ago
this is what I think should be the best behavior This is exactly what not to do. Don't ever let your employer know you're unhappy, disloyal, or "looking". This leaves you totally exposed, walking a tightrope without a safety net. You'll piss off your boss for no good reason and only reconfirm your current situation by not already having another offer. If you're so damn good, then why don't you have another offer? There's a big difference between what should work and what does work. On the job, you and your employer are teammates. When it comes to your renumeration, you are adversaries. Don't ever forget that.
jasonkester 16y ago
Minus the Phase II (never tell them you're planning to leave), I've done this a couple times with good success. It's healthy for both sides. You get a better job and a bit of self-satisfied pleasure during the "no, you lost me" speech. They get to understand why they lost a good worker, and the real costs associated with it. With luck, the team you left behind will have a better environment, since just maybe management will learn something.
- antirez 16y ago
  Yep sorry I was not clear, in phase II you are not supposed to tell you are looking for another job.
  - sushrutbidwai 16y ago
    People also tend to use interviewing to gauge what is current market price for talent they have. Specially when economic conditions start looking to change for better.

hugh3 16y ago

I'd love to see a boss try that in reverse. "Hi, employee. Just wanted to let you know we've started interviewing for your position because we think we can find someone just as good to do it for less. Unless, of course, you'd like to take a pay cut..." edit: A boss, but not my boss.