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> What I’ve long wondered is how women react in the real world now that they have all the power on dating apps Women always had that specific kind of power in

> What I’ve long wondered is how women react in the real world now that they have all the power on dating apps Women always had that specific kind of power in real world. When/if you go to a party, observe the people who are alone, standing against a wall; they're invariably men, without absolutely no exception. This says everything about power. Having said that, bear in mind that this kind of power is only a (arguably small) part of relationships between the sexes. It says a lot, but it's still a (small) part. > Why would they try to find a date in any other way? Because the dating medium strongly correlates with the interest of the people involved. Not everybody's looking for the Tinder type of relationship. "Before Tinder", one would just go to a nightclub. It's exactly the same experience; and for the same reason, not everybody goes to nightclubs.

dhimes 9y ago
It took me half a lifetime to realize this, but you are correct. It's the man's job to try, and it's the woman's job to choose. It's honestly changed the way I think about relationships.
- CiPHPerCoder 9y ago
  > It's the man's job to try, and it's the woman's job to choose. Is that a descriptive or prescriptive statement? Or put another way: Are you observing and remarking on cultural norms, or stating "This is how things should be?" I only ask because when someone says "It's X's job to [whatever]" the connotation is "X should [whatever]" but the context surrounding this made it ambiguous.
  - maroonblazer 9y ago
    Not the parent but it's definitely descriptive. Should it be that way? The answer likely depends on whether you're a man or a woman. From the male's POV changing the game benefits us since there's less work to do. If you're a woman then it's the opposite and a net negative. This sexual dynamic evolved for a reason, so changing it seems like the epitome of an uphill battle.
    - watwut 9y ago
      The one making the choice is more likely to end up with preferred partner. The one accepting/rejecting existing proposal has less chance to end up with most preferred partner.
      - nojvek 9y ago
        Women can make choices too. It’s just that it’s frowned upon when a woman makes the first move. That’s your downside. Men can brag Baku their sexual lives and even exaggerate it. Women have to do the opposite and be very secretive. Perhaps it ties to the dynamic. Women are buyers. Men are sellers. Easy to spend $1000 to buy things, hard to earn $1000 to sell something. Western dating is a totally different beast than other countries.
        watwut 9y ago
        I compared advantages of active vs passive person in that model - that holds true regardless of which gender is on which side. I think there are three different datings - the one when you look for partner, the one where you seek temporary fun and then the one when you seek brag points/social status through trophy partner you don't really care about. These discussions tend to confuse them.
    - CiPHPerCoder 9y ago
      > The answer likely depends on whether you're a man or a woman. From the male's POV changing the game benefits us since there's less work to do. If you're a woman then it's the opposite and a net negative. I don't have a horse in that race, but I do have an ethical concern. If you tell men that they're supposed to try, then it's likely that a lack of success will be met with trying harder. What does this result in, practically speaking? Being more forward? Being more touchy? Being more in their face putting in the effort? a.k.a. creepy, stalkerish behavior and possibly an increase in the incidence of sexual assault and/or harassment. That's the concern I have with the "should" position.
      - rarec 9y ago
- leeoniya 9y ago
  with most animals, it is the male that pursues and the female that chooses. i honestly cannot think of an exception to this pattern.
  - tryonqc 9y ago
    Not really. This is old thinking. The theory of sexual selection has been evolving in the past few years. BBC has a good intro on the subject: http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20160624-we-have-the-wrong-idea-about-males-females-and-sex http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20160624-we-have-the-wrong-id...
    - leeoniya 9y ago
      i skimmed the article and did not find anything stating that females frequently and actively compete for males. there are a lot of other counterexamples to anthropomorphic behavior there [that has been assigned to sexes] but not the specific one we're discussing here. i think the generalization at hand is on pretty solid footing. it's really the same for all generalizations. i can make the statement, "males are attracted to females" and it will be true in 95%+ of cases. just because some limited counterexamples exist does not make this generalization a poor representation - these are not laws of physics or mathematical axioms that need absolute conformance to be usefully true.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- camel_Snake 9y ago
  > It's the man's job to try, and it's the woman's job to choose. IMO this is very close, but missing an important point. It's a man's job to escalate, it's a woman's job to choose. Women definitely try. They put a lot of effort into how they are perceived (looks, mannerisms, etc.) and giving us subtextual clues that they are interested. All we have to do is be a little vulnerable and ask them out on a date, go for that first kiss, get down on one knee and so on.
  - stared 9y ago
    Relevant: "Why Don't Women Ask Men Out on First Dates? Despite greater equality, women still don't ask. Why?" https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-how-and-why-sex-differences/201104/why-dont-women-ask-men-out-first-dates https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-how-and-why-sex-...
  - atomical 9y ago
    > All we have to do is be a little vulnerable and ask them out on a date, go for that first kiss, get down on one knee and so on. It's a lot more complicated than that. Getting down on one knee can be more expensive than a knee replacement.

dhimes 9y ago

It took me half a lifetime to realize this, but you are correct. It's the man's job to try, and it's the woman's job to choose. It's honestly changed the way I think about relationships.

CiPHPerCoder 9y ago
> It's the man's job to try, and it's the woman's job to choose. Is that a descriptive or prescriptive statement? Or put another way: Are you observing and remarking on cultural norms, or stating "This is how things should be?" I only ask because when someone says "It's X's job to [whatever]" the connotation is "X should [whatever]" but the context surrounding this made it ambiguous.
- maroonblazer 9y ago
  Not the parent but it's definitely descriptive. Should it be that way? The answer likely depends on whether you're a man or a woman. From the male's POV changing the game benefits us since there's less work to do. If you're a woman then it's the opposite and a net negative. This sexual dynamic evolved for a reason, so changing it seems like the epitome of an uphill battle.
  - watwut 9y ago
    The one making the choice is more likely to end up with preferred partner. The one accepting/rejecting existing proposal has less chance to end up with most preferred partner.
    - nojvek 9y ago
      Women can make choices too. It’s just that it’s frowned upon when a woman makes the first move. That’s your downside. Men can brag Baku their sexual lives and even exaggerate it. Women have to do the opposite and be very secretive. Perhaps it ties to the dynamic. Women are buyers. Men are sellers. Easy to spend $1000 to buy things, hard to earn $1000 to sell something. Western dating is a totally different beast than other countries.
      - watwut 9y ago
        I compared advantages of active vs passive person in that model - that holds true regardless of which gender is on which side. I think there are three different datings - the one when you look for partner, the one where you seek temporary fun and then the one when you seek brag points/social status through trophy partner you don't really care about. These discussions tend to confuse them.
  - CiPHPerCoder 9y ago
    > The answer likely depends on whether you're a man or a woman. From the male's POV changing the game benefits us since there's less work to do. If you're a woman then it's the opposite and a net negative. I don't have a horse in that race, but I do have an ethical concern. If you tell men that they're supposed to try, then it's likely that a lack of success will be met with trying harder. What does this result in, practically speaking? Being more forward? Being more touchy? Being more in their face putting in the effort? a.k.a. creepy, stalkerish behavior and possibly an increase in the incidence of sexual assault and/or harassment. That's the concern I have with the "should" position.
    - rarec 9y ago
leeoniya 9y ago
with most animals, it is the male that pursues and the female that chooses. i honestly cannot think of an exception to this pattern.
- tryonqc 9y ago
  Not really. This is old thinking. The theory of sexual selection has been evolving in the past few years. BBC has a good intro on the subject: http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20160624-we-have-the-wrong-idea-about-males-females-and-sex http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20160624-we-have-the-wrong-id...
  - leeoniya 9y ago
    i skimmed the article and did not find anything stating that females frequently and actively compete for males. there are a lot of other counterexamples to anthropomorphic behavior there [that has been assigned to sexes] but not the specific one we're discussing here. i think the generalization at hand is on pretty solid footing. it's really the same for all generalizations. i can make the statement, "males are attracted to females" and it will be true in 95%+ of cases. just because some limited counterexamples exist does not make this generalization a poor representation - these are not laws of physics or mathematical axioms that need absolute conformance to be usefully true.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
camel_Snake 9y ago
> It's the man's job to try, and it's the woman's job to choose. IMO this is very close, but missing an important point. It's a man's job to escalate, it's a woman's job to choose. Women definitely try. They put a lot of effort into how they are perceived (looks, mannerisms, etc.) and giving us subtextual clues that they are interested. All we have to do is be a little vulnerable and ask them out on a date, go for that first kiss, get down on one knee and so on.
- stared 9y ago
  Relevant: "Why Don't Women Ask Men Out on First Dates? Despite greater equality, women still don't ask. Why?" https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-how-and-why-sex-differences/201104/why-dont-women-ask-men-out-first-dates https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-how-and-why-sex-...
- atomical 9y ago
  > All we have to do is be a little vulnerable and ask them out on a date, go for that first kiss, get down on one knee and so on. It's a lot more complicated than that. Getting down on one knee can be more expensive than a knee replacement.