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I plan to run LTS on my laptop from now on, so that I get a stable desktop environment. I used to be a sucker for running the latest and greatest, but I guess I

I plan to run LTS on my laptop from now on, so that I get a stable desktop environment. I used to be a sucker for running the latest and greatest, but I guess I'm too old for that now. I wonder how my applications will fare. I would like to have the latest version of Firefox, emacs, git, and so on. It's the desktop environment and OS itself I want to be as stable as possible. I'd also like to get the most recent kernel, I think, since the kernel is pretty darn stable and rarely has regressions, at least in my experience. I also learned that there's an official plan for 18.04.1, to be released July 26th. This is the release that will prompt 16.04 LTS for an upgrade. In other words, the official upgrade path for an LTS is to wait for the first patch release, and not upgrade immediately. So I'm considering waiting to update from 17.10 until 18.04.1 is out.

beojan 8y ago
I would avoid running LTS unless you really need the stability. Otherwise, having the latest applications (and utilities like git) is going to be difficult.
- setquk 8y ago
  I'd argue that's less of an issue these days. Hopping between LTS releases seems to be the most productive and free from issue way of working, at least for me. The main thing is latest browser versions and they still ship with the LTS release.
  - augustl 8y ago
    I plan to try, at least! There's an ppa for the latest emacs and fish shell anyway. Maybe I can find a ppa for git. My other editor, IntelliJ, updates itself. Spotify also has its own repo.
- piotrkubisa 8y ago
  It is worth noting Ubuntu comes with snap and flatpack support since latest two releases, and it works flawlessly for most of GUI applications. Sadly there isn't many CLI tools available to download like aforementioned git or zsh.
  - beojan 8y ago
    On newer laptops, disk space is at something of a premium (SSDs are expensive, so the disk size got smaller again), so Snap / Flatpak / Appimage are a bit of an issue.
  - jhasse 8y ago
    For many command line utilities you can use Linuxbrew: http://linuxbrew.sh/ http://linuxbrew.sh/
- oblio 8y ago
  What does the latest git provide, that is actually noteworthy or a game changer? Honest question.
- pmontra 8y ago
  I'm on 16.04 and I have no problems with that. I use the repositories of the developers, so I get the latest versions. I use Canonical's repositories for the OS and the software I don't really care much about. I had no problems with this approach (LibreOffice, PostgreSQL, etc). I occasionally run some software in a docker container to get the latest version, or to run multiple versions of the same server application (example: I've got two Redis for two different projects). Asdf [1] can manage multiple PostgreSQL versions (and several languages). The real advantage of staying on a LTS has been no big updates and no changes in the GUI. I'm on Gnome Flashback which I tweaked to be as closed as possible to Gnome 2. It seems that Gnome Shell eventually got enough extensions to also make it look like Gnome 2. I'll give it a try again after those memory leaks will go away. I can probably stick to 16.04 for another year before developers start skipping it in their builds. Edit: I checked and I have git 2.17.0, which is the latest version. I keep it up to date with ppa.launchpad.net/git-core/ppa/ubuntu [1] https://github.com/asdf-vm/asdf https://github.com/asdf-vm/asdf
  - augustl 8y ago
    I'll definitely look into Gnome Flashback. I'm not all that happy with Gnome 3. It often fails to restore my windows when attaching an external monitor at work, and the caffeine extension for keeping the display on during presentaitons etc somehow managed to lock up Gnome entirely when suspending. A sign of a unhealthy plug-in architecture, maybe...
- kingosticks 8y ago
  When using core tools (like git) in a large company, there is zero chance of everyone having the latest version. Nobody builds anything assuming you have the latest version and so everyone can keep working. We can't even rely on everyone having access to worktrees! The stability of LTS far, far outweighs every new feature I've found so far. It's a no-brainer when you are trying to get stuff actually done and don't appreciate having to regularly waste cycles on your toolbox.
- calgoo 8y ago
  The only reason why i would NOT run the LTS, is if i need some very new and fancy kernel version. However, even then they normally get backported into LTS, but sometimes that wait can leave you without something critical (like wifi or hibernation / sleep support) for months. There is always the option of recompiling the kernel from LTS to support the driver you want, but at that point, i would just go with the latest release.
  - wiredfool 8y ago
    There's generally a kernel package from the latest release built for the LTS distro: https://packages.ubuntu.com/search?suite=xenial&arch=any&searchon=names&keywords=linux-image%20lts https://packages.ubuntu.com/search?suite=xenial&arch=any&sea...
thibran 8y ago
To get the latest version of an app you can use snap-packages. E.g. to always get automatically the newest version of LibreOffice: sudo snap install libreoffice Don't forget to remove the preinstalled – and soon outdated – .deb-package version of LibreOffice :)
- augustl 8y ago
  Oh, that's really cool! I had no idea this existed. Thanks a lot!
- roryisok 8y ago
  Wait... Do Linux apps (Firefox etc) not self update like Windows and MacOS?
  - adamtulinius 8y ago
    No, that is usually the responsibility of the system wide package management system. :)
  - dingo_bat 8y ago
    No, they depend on the package manager to do that.
  - pasta 8y ago
    No. And there are multiple reasons for this. One example: when Firefox decides to integrade a keylogger it is very unlikely you will find that release on your Ubuntu installation. But in my experience Firefox is updated very soon after official releases.
    - dogma1138 8y ago
      On the other hand the only users that predictively fall to browser exploits when we run end user targeted red-team ops are the devs and IT peeps that run Linux instead of OSX/Windows. In fact across the board Linux machines in many enterprises are more likely to run outdated and possibly vulnerable software.
viraptor 8y ago
> I used to be a sucker for running the latest and greatest, but I guess I'm too old for that now. This seems to be much easier these days. Around 10.x / 12.x releases being on recent versions of everything made a lot of sense. Especially with browsers not updating separately from the main repo. There were actual, big improvements with drivers, power management, hi-res support, and other things. These days, I don't see that many reasons to keep current. All the tools I use are stable and almost old - vscode may be the only new one in 5 years. That's my anecdata anyway.
SiempreViernes 8y ago
Yeah, life really is nicer if you only have to muck about with the software you actually care about. I've been using LTS for several releases now, and have remained in blessed ignorance of X.org settings for most of that time :)
- augustl 8y ago
  Good to hear, I look forward to it! As a seasoned LTS user, would you recommend waiting for 18.04.1?
nikolaplejic 8y ago
You can always use something like the Nix package manager[1] to install Firefox, Git, and Emacs, and leave the rest to Ubuntu. Save for Firefox, which I install from a tarball and use auto-update, I have been doing that with Debian stable on my laptop, and it works well. [1] https://nixos.org/nix/ https://nixos.org/nix/
- geokon 8y ago
  So they will run on X11 that's from Debian stable? Will for example Emacs read your .Xresources from your home directory? I've been eyeing this setup with Guix but I have some concerns. If I install a newer version of GCC through Nix/Guix, can I run update-alternatives on it?
  - nikolaplejic 8y ago
    Yes, it will run on your system X11 obeying your .Xresources. I have never tried using update-alternatives to replace the system-wide GCC (or any piece of software for that matter).
    - geokon 8y ago
      that's nice it hooks back into your system. I might just have to try it :)

beojan 8y ago

I would avoid running LTS unless you really need the stability. Otherwise, having the latest applications (and utilities like git) is going to be difficult.

setquk 8y ago
I'd argue that's less of an issue these days. Hopping between LTS releases seems to be the most productive and free from issue way of working, at least for me. The main thing is latest browser versions and they still ship with the LTS release.
- augustl 8y ago
  I plan to try, at least! There's an ppa for the latest emacs and fish shell anyway. Maybe I can find a ppa for git. My other editor, IntelliJ, updates itself. Spotify also has its own repo.
piotrkubisa 8y ago
It is worth noting Ubuntu comes with snap and flatpack support since latest two releases, and it works flawlessly for most of GUI applications. Sadly there isn't many CLI tools available to download like aforementioned git or zsh.
- beojan 8y ago
  On newer laptops, disk space is at something of a premium (SSDs are expensive, so the disk size got smaller again), so Snap / Flatpak / Appimage are a bit of an issue.
- jhasse 8y ago
  For many command line utilities you can use Linuxbrew: http://linuxbrew.sh/ http://linuxbrew.sh/
oblio 8y ago
What does the latest git provide, that is actually noteworthy or a game changer? Honest question.
pmontra 8y ago
I'm on 16.04 and I have no problems with that. I use the repositories of the developers, so I get the latest versions. I use Canonical's repositories for the OS and the software I don't really care much about. I had no problems with this approach (LibreOffice, PostgreSQL, etc). I occasionally run some software in a docker container to get the latest version, or to run multiple versions of the same server application (example: I've got two Redis for two different projects). Asdf [1] can manage multiple PostgreSQL versions (and several languages). The real advantage of staying on a LTS has been no big updates and no changes in the GUI. I'm on Gnome Flashback which I tweaked to be as closed as possible to Gnome 2. It seems that Gnome Shell eventually got enough extensions to also make it look like Gnome 2. I'll give it a try again after those memory leaks will go away. I can probably stick to 16.04 for another year before developers start skipping it in their builds. Edit: I checked and I have git 2.17.0, which is the latest version. I keep it up to date with ppa.launchpad.net/git-core/ppa/ubuntu [1] https://github.com/asdf-vm/asdf https://github.com/asdf-vm/asdf
- augustl 8y ago
  I'll definitely look into Gnome Flashback. I'm not all that happy with Gnome 3. It often fails to restore my windows when attaching an external monitor at work, and the caffeine extension for keeping the display on during presentaitons etc somehow managed to lock up Gnome entirely when suspending. A sign of a unhealthy plug-in architecture, maybe...
kingosticks 8y ago
When using core tools (like git) in a large company, there is zero chance of everyone having the latest version. Nobody builds anything assuming you have the latest version and so everyone can keep working. We can't even rely on everyone having access to worktrees! The stability of LTS far, far outweighs every new feature I've found so far. It's a no-brainer when you are trying to get stuff actually done and don't appreciate having to regularly waste cycles on your toolbox.
calgoo 8y ago
The only reason why i would NOT run the LTS, is if i need some very new and fancy kernel version. However, even then they normally get backported into LTS, but sometimes that wait can leave you without something critical (like wifi or hibernation / sleep support) for months. There is always the option of recompiling the kernel from LTS to support the driver you want, but at that point, i would just go with the latest release.
- wiredfool 8y ago
  There's generally a kernel package from the latest release built for the LTS distro: https://packages.ubuntu.com/search?suite=xenial&arch=any&searchon=names&keywords=linux-image%20lts https://packages.ubuntu.com/search?suite=xenial&arch=any&sea...

thibran 8y ago

To get the latest version of an app you can use snap-packages. E.g. to always get automatically the newest version of LibreOffice: sudo snap install libreoffice Don't forget to remove the preinstalled – and soon outdated – .deb-package version of LibreOffice :)

augustl 8y ago
Oh, that's really cool! I had no idea this existed. Thanks a lot!
roryisok 8y ago
Wait... Do Linux apps (Firefox etc) not self update like Windows and MacOS?
- adamtulinius 8y ago
  No, that is usually the responsibility of the system wide package management system. :)
- dingo_bat 8y ago
  No, they depend on the package manager to do that.
- pasta 8y ago
  No. And there are multiple reasons for this. One example: when Firefox decides to integrade a keylogger it is very unlikely you will find that release on your Ubuntu installation. But in my experience Firefox is updated very soon after official releases.
  - dogma1138 8y ago
    On the other hand the only users that predictively fall to browser exploits when we run end user targeted red-team ops are the devs and IT peeps that run Linux instead of OSX/Windows. In fact across the board Linux machines in many enterprises are more likely to run outdated and possibly vulnerable software.

viraptor 8y ago

> I used to be a sucker for running the latest and greatest, but I guess I'm too old for that now. This seems to be much easier these days. Around 10.x / 12.x releases being on recent versions of everything made a lot of sense. Especially with browsers not updating separately from the main repo. There were actual, big improvements with drivers, power management, hi-res support, and other things. These days, I don't see that many reasons to keep current. All the tools I use are stable and almost old - vscode may be the only new one in 5 years. That's my anecdata anyway.

SiempreViernes 8y ago

Yeah, life really is nicer if you only have to muck about with the software you actually care about. I've been using LTS for several releases now, and have remained in blessed ignorance of X.org settings for most of that time :)

augustl 8y ago
Good to hear, I look forward to it! As a seasoned LTS user, would you recommend waiting for 18.04.1?

nikolaplejic 8y ago

You can always use something like the Nix package manager[1] to install Firefox, Git, and Emacs, and leave the rest to Ubuntu. Save for Firefox, which I install from a tarball and use auto-update, I have been doing that with Debian stable on my laptop, and it works well. [1] https://nixos.org/nix/ https://nixos.org/nix/

geokon 8y ago
So they will run on X11 that's from Debian stable? Will for example Emacs read your .Xresources from your home directory? I've been eyeing this setup with Guix but I have some concerns. If I install a newer version of GCC through Nix/Guix, can I run update-alternatives on it?
- nikolaplejic 8y ago
  Yes, it will run on your system X11 obeying your .Xresources. I have never tried using update-alternatives to replace the system-wide GCC (or any piece of software for that matter).
  - geokon 8y ago
    that's nice it hooks back into your system. I might just have to try it :)