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Thing is, when you start processing normal sums of money (>$200k/month), both Square and Stripe start to bleed you in fees. If your sub-$5k a month in volume bo

Thing is, when you start processing normal sums of money (>$200k/month), both Square and Stripe start to bleed you in fees. If your sub-$5k a month in volume both make sense to use as a processor, but as you get up there in volume, changing to any of their (much larger) competitors can easily halve that cost and save you a few grand a month in fees.

ajeet_dhaliwal 8y ago
What about negotiating a lower rate at that volume or do they only want to target small businesses?
- adamnemecek 8y ago
  Presumably negotiating with competitors will save even more.
SwellJoe 8y ago
Most businesses starting on Weebly (or similar) will never grow over $200k/month. Most small business isn't like the tech industry...it doesn't scale exponentially once market fit is found. It scales based on number of widgets and number of employees and how many physical locations or whatever the business has, most small business growth is governed by the laws of physics.
- aylmao 8y ago
  +1. I'd like to add that there's businesses that just don't want to grow after a certain size. Where I'm from there's plenty of small businesses that will make enough the family that owns it and their employees, and they're perfectly fine keeping it that way. Not all businesses are about taking over the world.
- z3t4 8y ago
  I guess most "businesses" is just side projects, and doesn't make any money at all. But most importantly: They keep paying the monthly fees, (the same fee as those who actually make money).
- ccccccccccccc 8y ago
  Also, once a company reaches $200k/month they're likely to move to a more powerful ecommerce platform like Shopify.
  - letientai299 8y ago
    Why is Spotify a better choice for that scale, snf not from the beginning, but only after that?
    - fouc 8y ago
      Weebly is likely to be simpler or more user-friendly for people just starting out. They might not know what level they will grow to yet, hence starting out with something more basic initially.
traek 8y ago
Once you hit any significant volume on Square, you can call them and move to a cost-plus rate.
- ecommerceguy 8y ago
  Wow lots of bad information being said in the comments. My take as a B&M and online shop owner: If I see a business using Square that's not a coffee shop, I will probably not go back because I expect them to not be in business too long. It's a terrible platform. Same goes for Weebly. If I see an ecommerce website ranking well and using weebly for ecommerce I will have a team member research the market and then we beat that website in ranking. That being said I've yet to run into that for weebly platform specifically. It's that BAD. 2.4 mm annually is considered a small business? On what Planet? My experience says that's a very successful SB to say the least. 200k per month and not on Amazon? And your using Stripe/Square/Weebly and not getting InterX Plus? Tell me your website again..? Considering rates, square is usable at 5k/mnth or below, avg ticket $10 or below. Now if you were laundering money square is great since they do 0 background checks. I'm looking at pizza joints in Brooklyn... you know who you are. TLDR Square and weebly are terrible platforms for people that dont know any better. Ditto for Wix. I LOL IRL when someone says they use either of these platforms.
elvirs 8y ago
can you name a company that will accept any card like square does while halving the processing fees?
- benmowa 8y ago
  larger volume typically means better rates, a bit outdated but for an overview of the landscape see: http://www.businessinsider.com/list-credit-card-processing-companies-2016-11 http://www.businessinsider.com/list-credit-card-processing-c...
rco8786 8y ago
I’m curious where you came up with $200k/month as a floor for “normal”
- dexterdog 8y ago
  2.4m in revenue per year is a pretty small business.
  - SwellJoe 8y ago
    It's not small for a business starting on Weebly. That was my point above. Weebly isn't where a business doing $2.4m in annual online revenue goes for a website. They have a team, or at least a person or contractor, responsible for building the website and ecommerce. All of my comments above were about the cottage industry where Weebly shines. There's a whole bunch of people making a little bit of money online...they aren't big clients for Square, but in aggregate they add up, and some of them will grow and Square will keep them as customers as long as they provide paths for growth. I think there's just a breakdown in what kinds of business we're talking about in this conversation. Yes, in many segments, $2.4m annual is a small business (it's well under 50 employees, probably well under 25 employees). But, as businesses with their sites on Weebly go, it's pretty big. Weebly has always been a place to go for a first website, particularly for non-technical businesses...it's just not the place you go when you're building a multimillion dollar business. So, both things can be true: $2.4m annual revenue is a relatively small business, and most businesses on Weebly will never grow to that size.
pbreit 8y ago
Do Stripe and Square still not compete much (ie Stripe mostly online, Square mostly offline)?
- mootrichard 8y ago
  Square actually has APIs for online processing now. https://squareup.com/developers https://squareup.com/developers
  - pbreit 8y ago
    I knew they had them, just haven't seen much enthusiasm behind them. I would think a large majority of Square's offline customers also take payments online and would imagine a small minority are using Square for online. The credit card processing APIs seem to get lost in all the rest of the POS/order mgmt APIs. And they're already on an incompatible v2 which doesn't really seem all that much better, just different.

ajeet_dhaliwal 8y ago

What about negotiating a lower rate at that volume or do they only want to target small businesses?

adamnemecek 8y ago
Presumably negotiating with competitors will save even more.

SwellJoe 8y ago

Most businesses starting on Weebly (or similar) will never grow over $200k/month. Most small business isn't like the tech industry...it doesn't scale exponentially once market fit is found. It scales based on number of widgets and number of employees and how many physical locations or whatever the business has, most small business growth is governed by the laws of physics.

aylmao 8y ago
+1. I'd like to add that there's businesses that just don't want to grow after a certain size. Where I'm from there's plenty of small businesses that will make enough the family that owns it and their employees, and they're perfectly fine keeping it that way. Not all businesses are about taking over the world.
z3t4 8y ago
I guess most "businesses" is just side projects, and doesn't make any money at all. But most importantly: They keep paying the monthly fees, (the same fee as those who actually make money).
ccccccccccccc 8y ago
Also, once a company reaches $200k/month they're likely to move to a more powerful ecommerce platform like Shopify.
- letientai299 8y ago
  Why is Spotify a better choice for that scale, snf not from the beginning, but only after that?
  - fouc 8y ago
    Weebly is likely to be simpler or more user-friendly for people just starting out. They might not know what level they will grow to yet, hence starting out with something more basic initially.

traek 8y ago

Once you hit any significant volume on Square, you can call them and move to a cost-plus rate.

ecommerceguy 8y ago
Wow lots of bad information being said in the comments. My take as a B&M and online shop owner: If I see a business using Square that's not a coffee shop, I will probably not go back because I expect them to not be in business too long. It's a terrible platform. Same goes for Weebly. If I see an ecommerce website ranking well and using weebly for ecommerce I will have a team member research the market and then we beat that website in ranking. That being said I've yet to run into that for weebly platform specifically. It's that BAD. 2.4 mm annually is considered a small business? On what Planet? My experience says that's a very successful SB to say the least. 200k per month and not on Amazon? And your using Stripe/Square/Weebly and not getting InterX Plus? Tell me your website again..? Considering rates, square is usable at 5k/mnth or below, avg ticket $10 or below. Now if you were laundering money square is great since they do 0 background checks. I'm looking at pizza joints in Brooklyn... you know who you are. TLDR Square and weebly are terrible platforms for people that dont know any better. Ditto for Wix. I LOL IRL when someone says they use either of these platforms.

elvirs 8y ago

can you name a company that will accept any card like square does while halving the processing fees?

benmowa 8y ago
larger volume typically means better rates, a bit outdated but for an overview of the landscape see: http://www.businessinsider.com/list-credit-card-processing-companies-2016-11 http://www.businessinsider.com/list-credit-card-processing-c...

rco8786 8y ago

I’m curious where you came up with $200k/month as a floor for “normal”

dexterdog 8y ago
2.4m in revenue per year is a pretty small business.
- SwellJoe 8y ago
  It's not small for a business starting on Weebly. That was my point above. Weebly isn't where a business doing $2.4m in annual online revenue goes for a website. They have a team, or at least a person or contractor, responsible for building the website and ecommerce. All of my comments above were about the cottage industry where Weebly shines. There's a whole bunch of people making a little bit of money online...they aren't big clients for Square, but in aggregate they add up, and some of them will grow and Square will keep them as customers as long as they provide paths for growth. I think there's just a breakdown in what kinds of business we're talking about in this conversation. Yes, in many segments, $2.4m annual is a small business (it's well under 50 employees, probably well under 25 employees). But, as businesses with their sites on Weebly go, it's pretty big. Weebly has always been a place to go for a first website, particularly for non-technical businesses...it's just not the place you go when you're building a multimillion dollar business. So, both things can be true: $2.4m annual revenue is a relatively small business, and most businesses on Weebly will never grow to that size.

pbreit 8y ago

Do Stripe and Square still not compete much (ie Stripe mostly online, Square mostly offline)?

mootrichard 8y ago
Square actually has APIs for online processing now. https://squareup.com/developers https://squareup.com/developers
- pbreit 8y ago
  I knew they had them, just haven't seen much enthusiasm behind them. I would think a large majority of Square's offline customers also take payments online and would imagine a small minority are using Square for online. The credit card processing APIs seem to get lost in all the rest of the POS/order mgmt APIs. And they're already on an incompatible v2 which doesn't really seem all that much better, just different.