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So much could be fixed simply by removing downvoting, which is no different to a virtual slap in the face or shout of abuse. SO already has a variety of mechan

So much could be fixed simply by removing downvoting, which is no different to a virtual slap in the face or shout of abuse. SO already has a variety of mechanisms for identifying issues with questions, why does it also allow people to yell random abuse without explanation via downvotes? The most disheartening, but completely expected, result of posting a question is that it will be very rapidly downvoted...not welcoming at all. AND everyone gets this face slap upon posting a question, but I can see how minorities might feel that are being singled out by the sites typical negative response to pretty much all questions. Sadly, even here on HN you can almost feel the joyful glee with which people can anonymously knock something down with downvotes and no need to explain. Downvotes on SO should either be removed entirely, or it should cost 2 SO points to make 1 downvote. Downvotes are nothing but pure negative, so hey, wanna remove some of the negative from SO? It’s obvious what to do.

ldiracdelta 8y ago
Sneering comments from neckbeards are worse than downvotes to me. Some days are just Monday and you're not on your game, but that doesn't stop the neckbeards from trying to light you on fire, despite the fact that you spent 30 minutes massaging the question or half a day agonizing about asking the question. You know the neckbeards are lurking in their basements.
- grzm 8y ago
  > "Sneering comments from neckbeards" Condescension, like any other dismissal, can be rough and is definitely detrimental to communication. That said, I encourage you to be the change you want to see. Name calling as you've done here, and snark, as you've done elsewhere in this thread, similarly degrade conversation and communication.
  - ldiracdelta 8y ago
    I'm not directing this at anyone in particular and so I will use "bad", yet colorful, words for people behaving bad. No one is going to read these comments and think they are the neckbeards, but most people who have participated in Stack Overflow have interacted with a preening, sneering neckbeard and neckbeards are indeed a problem on Stack Overflow.
    - grzm 8y ago
      The idea that it's ever okay to use language that demeans other people—in their presence, directed at them, or elsewhere—is part of the culture that allows people feel that it might be okay to do so directly. It's a habit we all should be working to break.
    - _kst_ 8y ago
      Speaking as someone who happens to have a full beard, I find your use of the slur "neckbeard" insulting. Find another way to say whatever you meant.
      - danmg 8y ago
        k
jodrellblank 8y ago
So much could be fixed simply by removing downvoting, which is no different to a virtual slap in the face or shout of abuse. I've been re-imagining it lately as: - Upvotes - comment-tags, with set comments (previously, reasons for downvoting). - no downvote option Then questions would be marked like: - 4 upvotes - 2 people tagged 'I might be able to answer, but I'm not sure exactly what you want to know, please clarify what you are asking' - 1 person tagged 'this looks like an XY question, please explain your reason for doing it this way as it looks like there is a more sensible approach and it's not clear whether you know that' - 1 person tagged 'this question looks like you are asking for help without trying to solve the problem yourself, and putting effort in to help people who are not showing their own effort feels like an unfair request' - 2 people tagged 'I was willing to help, but I stopped reading because it is too difficult to follow (average reading time by people who tagged this: N seconds)' And there would be no way to get a negative score, only languish at 1. The scoring system would have to be reworked to handle that. There could also be positive tags, 'I am interested in the answer to this question', 'I think this is clear'. Things visible down the left hand side of the question where the downvote button was, not hidden behind "close (2)" with broad, vague reasons "this or that or maybe this or anything similar". Particularly, things which could be said in comments, but nobody wants to type out over and over, and which can be tagged anonymously so you can have the ease of drive-by-anonymous-downvoting but with mandatory specific feedback having to choose why, and without the slap-in-face effect for the recipient. That would avoid the slap in the face element of downvoting, and avoid the ubiquitous back and forth "Why the downvotes?" / "don't whine about downvotes" / "I didn't downvote but it might be because X" / "people shouldn't be allowed to downvote without giving reasons" / "they are explicitly allowed to by the site design" / "these comments have been moved to chat". Downvotes are nothing but pure negative, so hey, wanna remove some of the negative from SO? It’s obvious what to do.

ldiracdelta 8y ago

Sneering comments from neckbeards are worse than downvotes to me. Some days are just Monday and you're not on your game, but that doesn't stop the neckbeards from trying to light you on fire, despite the fact that you spent 30 minutes massaging the question or half a day agonizing about asking the question. You know the neckbeards are lurking in their basements.

grzm 8y ago
> "Sneering comments from neckbeards" Condescension, like any other dismissal, can be rough and is definitely detrimental to communication. That said, I encourage you to be the change you want to see. Name calling as you've done here, and snark, as you've done elsewhere in this thread, similarly degrade conversation and communication.
- ldiracdelta 8y ago
  I'm not directing this at anyone in particular and so I will use "bad", yet colorful, words for people behaving bad. No one is going to read these comments and think they are the neckbeards, but most people who have participated in Stack Overflow have interacted with a preening, sneering neckbeard and neckbeards are indeed a problem on Stack Overflow.
  - grzm 8y ago
    The idea that it's ever okay to use language that demeans other people—in their presence, directed at them, or elsewhere—is part of the culture that allows people feel that it might be okay to do so directly. It's a habit we all should be working to break.
  - _kst_ 8y ago
    Speaking as someone who happens to have a full beard, I find your use of the slur "neckbeard" insulting. Find another way to say whatever you meant.
    - danmg 8y ago
      k

jodrellblank 8y ago

So much could be fixed simply by removing downvoting, which is no different to a virtual slap in the face or shout of abuse. I've been re-imagining it lately as: - Upvotes - comment-tags, with set comments (previously, reasons for downvoting). - no downvote option Then questions would be marked like: - 4 upvotes - 2 people tagged 'I might be able to answer, but I'm not sure exactly what you want to know, please clarify what you are asking' - 1 person tagged 'this looks like an XY question, please explain your reason for doing it this way as it looks like there is a more sensible approach and it's not clear whether you know that' - 1 person tagged 'this question looks like you are asking for help without trying to solve the problem yourself, and putting effort in to help people who are not showing their own effort feels like an unfair request' - 2 people tagged 'I was willing to help, but I stopped reading because it is too difficult to follow (average reading time by people who tagged this: N seconds)' And there would be no way to get a negative score, only languish at 1. The scoring system would have to be reworked to handle that. There could also be positive tags, 'I am interested in the answer to this question', 'I think this is clear'. Things visible down the left hand side of the question where the downvote button was, not hidden behind "close (2)" with broad, vague reasons "this or that or maybe this or anything similar". Particularly, things which could be said in comments, but nobody wants to type out over and over, and which can be tagged anonymously so you can have the ease of drive-by-anonymous-downvoting but with mandatory specific feedback having to choose why, and without the slap-in-face effect for the recipient. That would avoid the slap in the face element of downvoting, and avoid the ubiquitous back and forth "Why the downvotes?" / "don't whine about downvotes" / "I didn't downvote but it might be because X" / "people shouldn't be allowed to downvote without giving reasons" / "they are explicitly allowed to by the site design" / "these comments have been moved to chat". Downvotes are nothing but pure negative, so hey, wanna remove some of the negative from SO? It’s obvious what to do.