4 ms·

> Feelings have no “technically correct.” They’re just what the feeler is telling you. When someone tells you how they feel, you can pack up your magnifying gl

by lukev 9y ago

> Feelings have no “technically correct.” They’re just what the feeler is telling you. When someone tells you how they feel, you can pack up your magnifying glass and clue kit, cuz that’s the answer. You’re done. This is such an important point and missed so often by technical types. Impressed to hear it stated so clearly here.

fortythirteen 9y ago
I'm sure no fan of dismissive, know-it-all programmers, but to play devil's advocate, who's injecting their feelings into a site with the explicit purpose of solely answering programming questions?
- favorited 9y ago
  I think any tool which facilitates communication between 2 or more humans will involve emotions. I'd guess it's certainly likely to be the case on a forum for technical Q&A, for multiple potential reasons: - the questioner and the answerer might have vastly different levels of experience & therefore struggle to exchange ideas in terms they both understand - people might already be frustrated when they ask a question, since they may have already invested a lot of time trying (and failing) to solve a problem - multiple answerers are competing to be the endorsed answer, and there are rewards associated with it
- s73v3r_ 9y ago
  Feeling get injected into everything, because we're all humans with feelings, not robots.
  - freeflight 9y ago
    But that doesn't mean they should dominate everything we do. Feelings shouldn't control us, they can guide us sure enough, but the moment they control us we might just as well climb back up the trees and go back to angrily flinging poo at each other.
    - bcoughlan 9y ago
      Well said. People mostly want to avoid hurting others feelings, but that opens us up to an attack vector where a person or group demands that others change their behaviour so as to respect their feelings, but in bad faith a means of subjugating others. The Crybully exploit if you will. This has become such a common feature of every debate that the angry mobs on the internet are a greater threat than government to freedom of speech.
vorpalhex 9y ago
"I just feel it's ok to have variables named after single letters."
- blueline 9y ago
  "the tone of your response makes me feel like i'm being condescended to" is me expressing an emotion i experienced due to something you said "i feel that <an opinion>" is a different use of the word (nearly synonymous with "think") unless you're a non-native english speaker, i'm almost 100% positive that you know the difference and are being intentionally obtuse
  - vorpalhex 9y ago
    I've actually had this argument with someone who was attempting to force the use of a framework because "I just feel it's easier." As a good faith speaker, I agree with you. A native speaker should be self aware enough to not confuse an unsupported opinion with a "feeling", nor should we dismiss feelings. However, frequently, feelings are used as a poor substitute for rationality. Therefore I reject the argument that feelings can't be debated or argued.
the8472 9y ago
That is assuming people are not exaggerating or outright lying about their feelings to achieve some goal. Since feelings can't be verified it costs little to not be truthful.
legostormtroopr 9y ago
“I feel like this response is targeting me because of my race and gender. Oh, when will the HN community step in to stop such flagrant abuses.” See where unconditionally believing feelings gets you?
dfundako 9y ago
SO could make a site with all the same content, downvotes disabled, comments disabled, and all flags disabled. You would also get random upvotes to reinforce that your question was good. That would make everyone feel safe and appreciated since they are unable to see any negative comments towards them and their question.
- Someone1234 9y ago
  I bet that will float higher in Google than the current SO since the questions will be more specific to your query and newer (since no "dupe" flags on every second or third question asked).
- s73v3r_ 9y ago
  I think the problem is that too many people think that "giving feedback" and "being honest" require being mean. They don't.
  - dfundako 9y ago
    There are also lots of people who equate receiving negative, honest feedback with being attacked.
Izkata 9y ago
It's straight-up wrong though. A number of people feel unwelcome or hostile? Okay, out of how many? There's always going to be a very small percentage of people who don't fit in in large groups, no matter how much you try to work with them. They're also the ones who tend to speak up, and StackOverflow's userbase is massive, so this number gets inflated to something that may seem like a lot, but really isn't that many - and may well be within the error margin for "people who won't fit in". Typically moderation would push these people away, so they don't keep complaining, but StackOverflow, despite any issues it has, is too good a resource as-is.
cup-of-tea 9y ago
Maybe they should make a stackoverflow for women. The answer doesn't have to be right, it just has to make you feel good. Men built stackoverflow. Yes, those "technical types". Men can build things like this precisely because men value what is correct. If you want somewhere where feelings have a place you should stick to the creative arts.
- deviationblue 9y ago
  > Maybe they should make a stackoverflow for women. The answer doesn't have to be right, it just has to make you feel good. You're being a shithead. This isn't about men or women, and feelings are not exclusive to women. For example, I am sure it doesn't feel nice to be called a shithead. However, it's inaccurate to assume that the problems on SO stem from how these mythological women feel. There's a disagreement and lack of clarity on the purpose of the site. That needs to be resolved. Moreover, the site has become a big enough platform that it now it needs to answer the question whether it exists to serve the needs of the users, or primarily to serve its own assumed purpose. I don't know why the SO blog chose to highlight women, poc etc. as the ones inconvenienced by this. Poor move on their part, as it seems to have targeted these populations as the cause of the problem.

by lukev 9y ago

fortythirteen 9y ago

I'm sure no fan of dismissive, know-it-all programmers, but to play devil's advocate, who's injecting their feelings into a site with the explicit purpose of solely answering programming questions?

favorited 9y ago
I think any tool which facilitates communication between 2 or more humans will involve emotions. I'd guess it's certainly likely to be the case on a forum for technical Q&A, for multiple potential reasons: - the questioner and the answerer might have vastly different levels of experience & therefore struggle to exchange ideas in terms they both understand - people might already be frustrated when they ask a question, since they may have already invested a lot of time trying (and failing) to solve a problem - multiple answerers are competing to be the endorsed answer, and there are rewards associated with it
s73v3r_ 9y ago
Feeling get injected into everything, because we're all humans with feelings, not robots.
- freeflight 9y ago
  But that doesn't mean they should dominate everything we do. Feelings shouldn't control us, they can guide us sure enough, but the moment they control us we might just as well climb back up the trees and go back to angrily flinging poo at each other.
  - bcoughlan 9y ago
    Well said. People mostly want to avoid hurting others feelings, but that opens us up to an attack vector where a person or group demands that others change their behaviour so as to respect their feelings, but in bad faith a means of subjugating others. The Crybully exploit if you will. This has become such a common feature of every debate that the angry mobs on the internet are a greater threat than government to freedom of speech.

vorpalhex 9y ago

"I just feel it's ok to have variables named after single letters."

blueline 9y ago
"the tone of your response makes me feel like i'm being condescended to" is me expressing an emotion i experienced due to something you said "i feel that <an opinion>" is a different use of the word (nearly synonymous with "think") unless you're a non-native english speaker, i'm almost 100% positive that you know the difference and are being intentionally obtuse
- vorpalhex 9y ago
  I've actually had this argument with someone who was attempting to force the use of a framework because "I just feel it's easier." As a good faith speaker, I agree with you. A native speaker should be self aware enough to not confuse an unsupported opinion with a "feeling", nor should we dismiss feelings. However, frequently, feelings are used as a poor substitute for rationality. Therefore I reject the argument that feelings can't be debated or argued.

the8472 9y ago

That is assuming people are not exaggerating or outright lying about their feelings to achieve some goal. Since feelings can't be verified it costs little to not be truthful.

legostormtroopr 9y ago

“I feel like this response is targeting me because of my race and gender. Oh, when will the HN community step in to stop such flagrant abuses.” See where unconditionally believing feelings gets you?

dfundako 9y ago

SO could make a site with all the same content, downvotes disabled, comments disabled, and all flags disabled. You would also get random upvotes to reinforce that your question was good. That would make everyone feel safe and appreciated since they are unable to see any negative comments towards them and their question.

Someone1234 9y ago
I bet that will float higher in Google than the current SO since the questions will be more specific to your query and newer (since no "dupe" flags on every second or third question asked).
s73v3r_ 9y ago
I think the problem is that too many people think that "giving feedback" and "being honest" require being mean. They don't.
- dfundako 9y ago
  There are also lots of people who equate receiving negative, honest feedback with being attacked.

Izkata 9y ago

It's straight-up wrong though. A number of people feel unwelcome or hostile? Okay, out of how many? There's always going to be a very small percentage of people who don't fit in in large groups, no matter how much you try to work with them. They're also the ones who tend to speak up, and StackOverflow's userbase is massive, so this number gets inflated to something that may seem like a lot, but really isn't that many - and may well be within the error margin for "people who won't fit in". Typically moderation would push these people away, so they don't keep complaining, but StackOverflow, despite any issues it has, is too good a resource as-is.

cup-of-tea 9y ago

Maybe they should make a stackoverflow for women. The answer doesn't have to be right, it just has to make you feel good. Men built stackoverflow. Yes, those "technical types". Men can build things like this precisely because men value what is correct. If you want somewhere where feelings have a place you should stick to the creative arts.

deviationblue 9y ago
> Maybe they should make a stackoverflow for women. The answer doesn't have to be right, it just has to make you feel good. You're being a shithead. This isn't about men or women, and feelings are not exclusive to women. For example, I am sure it doesn't feel nice to be called a shithead. However, it's inaccurate to assume that the problems on SO stem from how these mythological women feel. There's a disagreement and lack of clarity on the purpose of the site. That needs to be resolved. Moreover, the site has become a big enough platform that it now it needs to answer the question whether it exists to serve the needs of the users, or primarily to serve its own assumed purpose. I don't know why the SO blog chose to highlight women, poc etc. as the ones inconvenienced by this. Poor move on their part, as it seems to have targeted these populations as the cause of the problem.