5 ms·

I believe the "old == stagnant" meme is largely a myth. It sounds right somehow, so it sticks with us. Over the course of a long career, though, I've seen thi

I believe the "old == stagnant" meme is largely a myth. It sounds right somehow, so it sticks with us. Over the course of a long career, though, I've seen this kind of stagnation distributed pretty evenly across people of different ages. The difference is that when we someone who's young and stagnant, we just chalk them up as green, or a business type, etc. But not "stagnant". We can't see their future, so we can't see that they're always going to be like that. If you weren't stagnant when you were young, you're not going to be stagnant when you're old.

antonvs 8y ago
But an older stagnant person's skills tend to be much more out of date. Younger ones have the benefit that their skills are still likely to be relevant at a larger subset of the employer pool.
- modbait 8y ago
  That's an interesting point, and may very well be true. It doesn't imply that there's a correlation between age and stagnation, though. Also, in my experience, stagnation can run in the other direction, temporally. I encounter many young people who won't even learn about, much less consider, using a tool like 'make', simply based on the assumption that newer seemingly similar tools must be better. Sometimes the old ways really are superior for the task at hand.
  - fecak 8y ago
    That's just it. It's really rare to find a 25 year old with a stagnant set of skills. I don't know if stagnation is the best word, but I also think there are other elements. Complacency in some cases, or getting too comfortable. Most of the successful tech people I know that are 50+ never overstayed their welcome at companies where they stopped learning, or they were always being recruited by other firms and moved around. Recruiters generally aren't knocking on doors of someone who has been at the same company for 20 years, and that's for a variety of reasons.
    - modbait 8y ago
      We must move in different circles. I've tried to sell whole teams of 20-somethings to give git a try, and they're just not having it. They know what they know, and that's it.
      - Latteland 8y ago
        I must move in different circles too. Every programmer today uses git, only maybe people stuck at a big company like Microsoft for their whole career don't use git and even Microsoft uses them now. And make: it's what everyone uses. Sometimes cross operating system projects use cmake instead of make but it's not that different. All the new programmers I meet coming out of college use these tools.
  - antonvs 8y ago
    > It doesn't imply that there's a correlation between age and stagnation, though. Not the way you're describing it. However, there's a pretty common correlation between age and relevance of skillset, which is a direct consequence of stagnation over many years. The point is that someone saying "old == stagnant" may actually be thinking of it the way I'm describing, which has more validity.
- himom 8y ago
  Your first sentence is a loaded, presumptive opinion that assumes age equals out-of-date without evidence. Younger ones can have all the latest Javascript library experience they want but they still don’t have enough obvious experience for engineering mastery that’s vital to being a highly-productive independent contributor or tech lead.
  - Chyzwar 8y ago
    We know that, but employers are looking for React.js developers, not Software Engineer Architect. Whatever you like it or not you need to have a relevant tech on your CV.
  - antonvs 8y ago
    > Your first sentence is a loaded, presumptive opinion that assumes age equals out-of-date without evidence. Read it again. It's referring to older stagnant people, not all older people. The longer someone has been stagnant, the more out of date their skills become.
Reedx 8y ago
> It sounds right somehow, so it sticks with us. Because that is the case generally speaking. People become more resistant to change as they get older. They become more conservative, their openness trait decreases. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16435954 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16435954 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2562318/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2562318/
- discreteevent 8y ago
  That might be true but it's pretty easy to stay "open" in tech as opposed to being open in general. The longer you do it the more you realise it's all the same and that a good portion of it is actually a regression. That last sentence sounded a bit cynical - So anyway, the main trick with being older in tech is not being open but remaining enthusiastic (most days)
  - Reedx 8y ago
    Yep, for sure. And it's easy to be too open in tech - constantly chasing the new shiny framework or language or library (which I'm frequently guilty of). But a lot of times the right answer is to stick with what has been battle tested and what you're productive in.
    - modbait 8y ago
      Indeed. There's an inevitable trade-off between looking for a better approach and simply executing with what you have. (cf machine learning) Suppose my boss asks me to find a good Thai restaurant for lunch. If I'm new to the area, I'll be very "open" and spend a lot of time looking into the possibilities, etc. If I have a lot of experience eating at Thai places in town, I'll be less open. I already know the best one out of a substantial set, and it's less likely that I'll find a better one without a lot of work. Call it stagnation, or call it being careful with the company's money.
himom 8y ago
It’s a fallacy of younger, inexperienced, consumption-brainwashed people that “new == better.” Also, it could be that certain groups want more people like them for mating, dating, etc.
- Latteland 8y ago
  I'm another 50-plus programmer. It's not that new is better it's that you just need to know about new things. You need to know about C++ 11 and C++ 14 if you're a C++ programmer. You should learn before you interview. Right or wrong companies are looking for people that have a grasp of current Technologies. It's not about being better it's about knowing what's happening in today's world.

antonvs 8y ago

But an older stagnant person's skills tend to be much more out of date. Younger ones have the benefit that their skills are still likely to be relevant at a larger subset of the employer pool.

modbait 8y ago
That's an interesting point, and may very well be true. It doesn't imply that there's a correlation between age and stagnation, though. Also, in my experience, stagnation can run in the other direction, temporally. I encounter many young people who won't even learn about, much less consider, using a tool like 'make', simply based on the assumption that newer seemingly similar tools must be better. Sometimes the old ways really are superior for the task at hand.
- fecak 8y ago
  That's just it. It's really rare to find a 25 year old with a stagnant set of skills. I don't know if stagnation is the best word, but I also think there are other elements. Complacency in some cases, or getting too comfortable. Most of the successful tech people I know that are 50+ never overstayed their welcome at companies where they stopped learning, or they were always being recruited by other firms and moved around. Recruiters generally aren't knocking on doors of someone who has been at the same company for 20 years, and that's for a variety of reasons.
  - modbait 8y ago
    We must move in different circles. I've tried to sell whole teams of 20-somethings to give git a try, and they're just not having it. They know what they know, and that's it.
    - Latteland 8y ago
      I must move in different circles too. Every programmer today uses git, only maybe people stuck at a big company like Microsoft for their whole career don't use git and even Microsoft uses them now. And make: it's what everyone uses. Sometimes cross operating system projects use cmake instead of make but it's not that different. All the new programmers I meet coming out of college use these tools.
- antonvs 8y ago
  > It doesn't imply that there's a correlation between age and stagnation, though. Not the way you're describing it. However, there's a pretty common correlation between age and relevance of skillset, which is a direct consequence of stagnation over many years. The point is that someone saying "old == stagnant" may actually be thinking of it the way I'm describing, which has more validity.
himom 8y ago
Your first sentence is a loaded, presumptive opinion that assumes age equals out-of-date without evidence. Younger ones can have all the latest Javascript library experience they want but they still don’t have enough obvious experience for engineering mastery that’s vital to being a highly-productive independent contributor or tech lead.
- Chyzwar 8y ago
  We know that, but employers are looking for React.js developers, not Software Engineer Architect. Whatever you like it or not you need to have a relevant tech on your CV.
- antonvs 8y ago
  > Your first sentence is a loaded, presumptive opinion that assumes age equals out-of-date without evidence. Read it again. It's referring to older stagnant people, not all older people. The longer someone has been stagnant, the more out of date their skills become.

Reedx 8y ago

> It sounds right somehow, so it sticks with us. Because that is the case generally speaking. People become more resistant to change as they get older. They become more conservative, their openness trait decreases. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16435954 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16435954 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2562318/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2562318/

discreteevent 8y ago
That might be true but it's pretty easy to stay "open" in tech as opposed to being open in general. The longer you do it the more you realise it's all the same and that a good portion of it is actually a regression. That last sentence sounded a bit cynical - So anyway, the main trick with being older in tech is not being open but remaining enthusiastic (most days)
- Reedx 8y ago
  Yep, for sure. And it's easy to be too open in tech - constantly chasing the new shiny framework or language or library (which I'm frequently guilty of). But a lot of times the right answer is to stick with what has been battle tested and what you're productive in.
  - modbait 8y ago
    Indeed. There's an inevitable trade-off between looking for a better approach and simply executing with what you have. (cf machine learning) Suppose my boss asks me to find a good Thai restaurant for lunch. If I'm new to the area, I'll be very "open" and spend a lot of time looking into the possibilities, etc. If I have a lot of experience eating at Thai places in town, I'll be less open. I already know the best one out of a substantial set, and it's less likely that I'll find a better one without a lot of work. Call it stagnation, or call it being careful with the company's money.

himom 8y ago

It’s a fallacy of younger, inexperienced, consumption-brainwashed people that “new == better.” Also, it could be that certain groups want more people like them for mating, dating, etc.

Latteland 8y ago
I'm another 50-plus programmer. It's not that new is better it's that you just need to know about new things. You need to know about C++ 11 and C++ 14 if you're a C++ programmer. You should learn before you interview. Right or wrong companies are looking for people that have a grasp of current Technologies. It's not about being better it's about knowing what's happening in today's world.