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Raising my son. Playing music with my friends. Building a home and relationships with my partners. Building my body and mind through long term studies of var
by scarecrowbob 9y ago
Raising my son.
Playing music with my friends.
Building a home and relationships with my partners.
Building my body and mind through long term studies of various branches of philosophical and intellectual inquiry.
Caring for specific peoples' specific needs.
That all might sound hippy-dippy or unrealistic, but because of the history of our economy we tend to value only monetarily compensated public labor as "work", when in fact the domestic labor that recreates ourselves across time (like building homes and raising children) is far more intimate and important to our lives.
That is just my limited experience; I'm open to being wrong about that in other people.
And that's maybe a tough set of priorities if you're working 60 hours a week (including commute and the domestic labor that goes into maintaining yourself for the sole purposes of being able to do paid labor).
So, as I recognized that, I optimized my for-pay labor (I'm a web dev) into a 30-hour-a-week salaried 100% remote deal with a person who is a fantastic sales person. The work is fun and interesting, but more importantly it can be "just about the paycheck" because the meaningful work in my life gets enough time and attention for me to feel good about that work and see the results.
I dunno if that would work for other people, but it's been working well for me.
- hangtwenty 9y agoAny tips on finding a <40hr/week salaried job in the U.S.? I am remote-first too. And like you, I like to make music outside of work, and it's difficult to do so with long hours. (EDIT: finding -- or carving out, or negotiating, etc) I've found it difficult to even broach the subject of work-life balance or expected hours. The norm (50+ hours a week) is so unhealthy, and I hate that it's taboo to even discuss it. I'd gladly discuss lower expected hours and lower base pay.
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- dreta 9y agoHow is any of this relevant to the question?
- 2474 9y agoBecause the question is loosely defined. This was his valid interpretation of the question.
- bbbobbb 9y ago> I've been looking to make a change away from typical enterprise development (full stack web developer) as it's not just about the paycheck any more No, it was not if you read even first three sentences past the title. The sentiment is nice but it has nothing to do with the question.
- throwaway5752 9y agoI'm with you. The context was explicit and obviously intended to be work-oriented. Obviously friends and family should rate higher than work. But this detracts from the intended discussion. My most rewarding professional experience have come from 1) working with a respectful and high-standards team 2) solving a real world problem that is either new or inadequately address by current solutions 3) where I have a really clear idea of the value I add and see how I contribute.
- scarecrowbob 9y agoI agree with you about the context. I don't agree that many people draw the same obvious conclusion that family and friends rate higher that paid work-- note that in your response you explicitly draw a distinction between them that isn't necessary. So while I understand you have an implicit bias towards saying that domestic labor isn't work, and while I understand that this bias permeates not only the question but our culture at large, I disagree that this bias is necessary. And I feel like challenging that implicit bias is a worthwhile use of my time, so thank you for allowing me to make this specific and tiny project a little more explicit in my own mind.
- throwaway5752 9y agoSo while I understand you have an implicit bias towards saying that domestic labor isn't work, and while I understand that this bias permeates not only the question but our culture at large, I disagree that this bias is necessary. Yeah, no. I think we do all sorts of things and they are all "real work". But it falls into different areas. This particular area was about professional projects & jobs. In case this is an English language thing, it is common vernacular to call one's paid employment "work" without making a value judgement on other activities. I think domestic work is extremely important and real work (and frankly, resent the heck out of your implication otherwise). You didn't mention self-improvement and education or charity, either, but I wouldn't be rude enough to imply you don't value those by not including them.
- side_up_down 9y agoThats a great answer but decidedly off topic. He asked a very specific question and you gave a completely different answer. HN, this shouldn't be voted up here. Our biases are showing by doing so.
- dang 9y agoIt's ok if it's interesting. Edit: I took a closer look and see the point now. It gives a more generic answer to a specific question. Such comments tend to be how discussions get less interesting, more because of the upvotes they attract than because the comment itself is bad. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- 2474 9y agoMy for-pay labor is not as optimized as yours but I treat my job like that as well. I don't need to find meaning or personal value (great if I can) in my job. I get that from my friends and family and the experiences I have with those people outside of work.
- laythea 9y agoIn my opinion, it is quite depressing to not chase meaning and personal value in something that takes 1/3 of my living time.
- 2474 9y agoThat's a byproduct of modern society. I find it depressing that society, since the late 18th century [1], thinks we need to work that long. Nonetheless, your statement is a valid one. Personally, I do my best to reduce that 1/3. Finding work that allows flexible schedules or work remotely but all that job needs to do is provide me money, which in turn gives me more freedom. That's not to say that I don't find satisfaction in my work, it's just ancillary, and so far, not a requirement. [1] https://www.huffingtonpost.com/leonhard-widrich/the-origin-of-the-8-hour-_b_4524488.html https://www.huffingtonpost.com/leonhard-widrich/the-origin-o...
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- mikearagua 9y agoI've set up a very similar situation for myself. Part time work with near full time pay/benefits, remote when necessary. It took some effort to get the employers I wanted to work for to agree to it since it wasn't company policy.
- jjeaff 9y agoI am similar. But I actually derive a lot of satisfaction from the saas project i created and work on because of the things that the money will help me do. I do enjoy providing a product that helps make users lives and businesses simpler. But everytime a new customer signs up, I chalk that up as more time for my family, more money for travel with them, more money for a retirement income, more money for our dream home. It's exciting!
- freedomben 9y agoI very much agree. I ditto your sentiments. I've had a few people ask me lately why I've spent so much time long-term (an hour or two a day, for at least 2 years) studying philosophy. It's very difficult to convey the feeling you get when really approaching philiosophical thought in the way Descartes challenged via apple baskets: > “Suppose [a person] had a basket full of apples and, being worried that some of the apples were rotten, wanted to take out the rotten ones to prevent the rot spreading. How would he proceed? Would he not begin by tipping the whole lot out of the basket? And would not the next step be to cast his eye over each apple in turn, and pick up and put back in the basket only those he saw to be sound, leaving the others? In just the same way, those who have never philosophized correctly have various opinions in their minds which they have begun to store up since childhood, and which they therefore have reason to believe may in many cases be false. They then attempt to separate the false beliefs from the others, so as to prevent their contaminating the rest and making the whole lot uncertain. Now the best way they can accomplish this is to reject all their beliefs together in one go, as if they were all uncertain and false. They can then go over each belief in turn and re-adopt only those which they recognize to be true and indubitable.” --René Descartes, Meditations on First Philosophy
- ad_hominem 9y agoAny suggestions for someone who has never taken/read philosophy but would like to dip their toe into it?
- jasonswett 9y agoI'd suggest the Philosophize This podcast.
- freedomben 9y agoDefinitely second this. It's a great toe dip podcast that does a good overview. You can then dive deeper in areas of interest.
- freedomben 9y agoIf you want a more gentle introduction, I recommend (in no particular order): 1. This website: https://www.philosophybasics.com/ 2. The "Philosophize This" podcast (start at the beginning) 3. The "Philosophers in 90 minutes" series (I recommend going in chronological order since most philosophers build on the work of previous philosophers) 4. "The Philosophy Book: Big Ideas Simply Explained": https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/0756668611/ For a very thorough and newcomer friendly introduction: 1. The HoPWaG (History of Philosophy Without any Gaps) podcast: https://historyofphilosophy.net/ When you're ready for more deep dive, or if you like to start out sprinting: 1. Introduction to Greek Philosophy (yes it's an "intro" course but it's amazing and pretty deep. Highly recommended even if you are mostly interested in modern philosophy): https://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/introduction-to-greek-philosophy.html 2. The Modern Intellectual Tradition - Descartes to Derrida: https://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/modern-intellectual-tradition-from-descartes-to-derrida.html 3. The Modern Political Tradition - Hobbes to Habermas: https://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/the-modern-political-tradition-hobbes-to-habermas.html 4. A History of Western Philosophy by Bertrand Russell: https://smile.amazon.com/History-Western-Philosophy-Bertrand-Russell/dp/0671201581 5. European Thought & Culture in the {19,20}th Century: https://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/european-thought-and-culture-in-the-19th-century.html and https://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/european-thought-and-culture-in-the-20th-century.html 6. Great Minds of the Western Intellectual Tradition (honestly not my favorite, but it covers a lot of ground): https://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/great-minds-of-the-western-intellectual-tradition-3rd-edition.html 7. Original Sources! Especially: A. John Locke's Second Treatise of Government B. Descartes First Meditation (this will blow your mind) C. Immanuel Kant's Critique of Pure Reason D. Kant's Metaphysics of Morals E. If you are into politics and/or economics (if you really try to understand these books, you may come away having no idea what your political leanings are): 1. Karl Marx - Communist Manifesto, and Das Kapital 2. Ludwig von Mises - Socialism, and Human Action 3. Hayek - Road to Serfdom Those are some of my favorites. There is a giant queue I have left to read, and I've also left off some good ones. There are quite a few additional books and Great Courses that I can also recommend if you're interested. NOTE: Don't pay full price for a Great Courses course. They go on sale a couple times a year, so just keep an eye on them until they are 70-90% off. Also if you buy through their website they are DRM free.