6 ms·

UI is simply terribly hard. And the open source “bazaar” model also happens to be at its worst in UI work. You kinda need a dictator with taste to get UIs right

UI is simply terribly hard. And the open source “bazaar” model also happens to be at its worst in UI work. You kinda need a dictator with taste to get UIs right, and the Linux community has neither dictators nor taste.

andrepd 9y ago
A counterexample to that is the many other DEs done right: Xfce, Cinnamon, etc.
- VMG 9y ago
  Why do you think they are less popular? Maybe it's a matter of taste?
- megaman22 9y ago
  It's not like there isn't decades of prior art out there on what works well... A decade ago I was quite happy with the Gnome2 desktop. Since then, I either go with Xubuntu and XFCE or Mint, which was Cinnamon last time I checked.
- yellowapple 9y ago
  Maybe this is different nowadays, but my initial experiences with Cinnamon a few years back (right when I first switched to Mint in light of Ubuntu's Amazon Lens debacle) were very strongly negative. It was ugly, unstable, slow, difficult to customize, and in general just as shitty as GNOME 3 was at the time. MATE, on the other hand, was/is fantastic. GNOME 2 already was just about perfect for me, and though I was willing to give Unity a try, I was disappointed that it was so different from GNOME. MATE filled that void in my heart like no other DE could. Xfce is also excellent, and is what I'm using at work right now (though I'm looking into switching back to a tiling WM, since I feel like I'm more productive with it).
  - deathanatos 9y ago
    > MATE, on the other hand, was/is fantastic. GNOME 2 already was just about perfect for me, and though I was willing to give Unity a try, I was disappointed that it was so different from GNOME. MATE filled that void in my heart like no other DE could. I'm a MATE user presently, and I have to agree with this. It does what I need with minimal BS. Unity, in particular, felt to me like a Linux DE trying to be OS X, but not really succeeding at it. (I'm not particular fond of OS X, either; I don't really don't care for the single-menu-at-the-top paradigm and the icon dock on the side never seemed to really work right.) But hey, it's Linux. IDK about Ubuntu these days, but in Gentoo (what I use presently), you can pretty much run whatever DE you want. If people want OS X-ish, that's their choice.
  - andrepd 9y ago
    Cinnamon has matured quit a lot in the last years. You should give it another go. I agree that Xfce is excellent. It's my go-to choice for any older/underpowered machines.
datalus 9y ago
you can make tiled managers look pretty tasteful... https://www.reddit.com/r/unixporn/ https://www.reddit.com/r/unixporn/
cat199 9y ago
gnome community seems very much to have strong leadership.. where they want to lead on the other hand..
setquk 9y ago
I think that's overcomplicating the problem. The problem is that there are established UI paradigms that work for power users, which to be honest is most of the userbase. But those paradigms are static and boring compared to the possibilities, so people invest time in playing with the possibilities instead of delivering what the end user needs.
deltron3030 9y ago
The main problem I see with Linux is the barrier for contributors. Somebody who works as UI designer or web / app developer wouldn't want to to go back to arcane ways of coding UIs, but would want to learn and build upon the skills he needs for his profession. This chasm between how the real world works, and how it works in the Linux ecosystem has to be closed first. Something like React Native for Linux could help, or maybe a distro that is focused on full stack web/app development, and sets the standards for the rest of the Linux ecosystem in this regard.

andrepd 9y ago

A counterexample to that is the many other DEs done right: Xfce, Cinnamon, etc.

VMG 9y ago
Why do you think they are less popular? Maybe it's a matter of taste?
megaman22 9y ago
It's not like there isn't decades of prior art out there on what works well... A decade ago I was quite happy with the Gnome2 desktop. Since then, I either go with Xubuntu and XFCE or Mint, which was Cinnamon last time I checked.
yellowapple 9y ago
Maybe this is different nowadays, but my initial experiences with Cinnamon a few years back (right when I first switched to Mint in light of Ubuntu's Amazon Lens debacle) were very strongly negative. It was ugly, unstable, slow, difficult to customize, and in general just as shitty as GNOME 3 was at the time. MATE, on the other hand, was/is fantastic. GNOME 2 already was just about perfect for me, and though I was willing to give Unity a try, I was disappointed that it was so different from GNOME. MATE filled that void in my heart like no other DE could. Xfce is also excellent, and is what I'm using at work right now (though I'm looking into switching back to a tiling WM, since I feel like I'm more productive with it).
- deathanatos 9y ago
  > MATE, on the other hand, was/is fantastic. GNOME 2 already was just about perfect for me, and though I was willing to give Unity a try, I was disappointed that it was so different from GNOME. MATE filled that void in my heart like no other DE could. I'm a MATE user presently, and I have to agree with this. It does what I need with minimal BS. Unity, in particular, felt to me like a Linux DE trying to be OS X, but not really succeeding at it. (I'm not particular fond of OS X, either; I don't really don't care for the single-menu-at-the-top paradigm and the icon dock on the side never seemed to really work right.) But hey, it's Linux. IDK about Ubuntu these days, but in Gentoo (what I use presently), you can pretty much run whatever DE you want. If people want OS X-ish, that's their choice.
- andrepd 9y ago
  Cinnamon has matured quit a lot in the last years. You should give it another go. I agree that Xfce is excellent. It's my go-to choice for any older/underpowered machines.

datalus 9y ago

you can make tiled managers look pretty tasteful... https://www.reddit.com/r/unixporn/ https://www.reddit.com/r/unixporn/

cat199 9y ago

gnome community seems very much to have strong leadership.. where they want to lead on the other hand..

setquk 9y ago

I think that's overcomplicating the problem. The problem is that there are established UI paradigms that work for power users, which to be honest is most of the userbase. But those paradigms are static and boring compared to the possibilities, so people invest time in playing with the possibilities instead of delivering what the end user needs.

deltron3030 9y ago

The main problem I see with Linux is the barrier for contributors. Somebody who works as UI designer or web / app developer wouldn't want to to go back to arcane ways of coding UIs, but would want to learn and build upon the skills he needs for his profession. This chasm between how the real world works, and how it works in the Linux ecosystem has to be closed first. Something like React Native for Linux could help, or maybe a distro that is focused on full stack web/app development, and sets the standards for the rest of the Linux ecosystem in this regard.