4 ms·

Not quite startup or hobby project material, but some of the most gratifying work is making non-critical, easy to implement changes in your business's workflow!

by Liquix 9y ago

Not quite startup or hobby project material, but some of the most gratifying work is making non-critical, easy to implement changes in your business's workflow! Sometimes users will have minor (or major) issues with the way a tool works - database takes 30 seconds to retrieve a certain type of information, there's no clear path from point A to point B in a frequently used business tool, certain jobs take 2x as long as they should, etc. These issues don't have much of an impact on management or the bottom line, so they won't be assigned to anyone to fix. But if you spend two hours speeding up that tool or streamlining a frequently used process, the 'work done' to 'that look on their face when you make their life easier' ratio is incredible.

dmead 9y ago
This is definitely not an answer.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- logicallee 9y ago
  I'm trying to read your comment charitably[1], since it's "obviously" wrong (as wrong as if you said, "hard to put this advice into practice since most professional programmers have never worked in a company that has any business processes or tools, and it's not really possible to start working in one that does have one") I say this because your parent post is "obviously" a great response that directly answers the question. So, if I want to read your comment charitably: a lot of technical people are poorly in touch with their feelings. Maybe you are right about Liquix, and they poorly report their most rewarding experience. At a guess what would you say is likely more gratifying (the meaning of rewarding) for Liquix? What would a better answer to the question be? I really have trouble guessing why you would write this, unless you thought rewarding meant "highest-paid" (not the usual sense of the word.) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_charity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_charity
codingdave 9y ago
I tend to agree -- I am sure people are hoping for an answer about joining a mission-driven small company and changing the world. But Enterprise IT in a large company gives you that daily hit of small successes, helping one or two people to have a better day and improved tools. It comes with downsides, too, which I'm sure this community can rant about ad nauseum. But truly, if your primary goal above all other things is to have the experience of making someone's day better as an every day occurrence, one should be doing application support in large corp.
christophilus 9y ago
I can second this. I think it is an answer, to counter the other commenter. There are businesses that are built on the idea of coming in and streamlining processes and inefficiencies. This could fall into that category.
jpmoyn 9y ago
I spend a lot of time developing internal tools to make my company's operations team's life easier, and I agree it feels good! It's nice that people appreciate it as well. Not every coding task is rewarded with praise, so it's nice when they are!
koliber 9y ago
Exactly! I would argue though that such improvements do not have an impact on the bottom line. Sure, any one of them may improve the efficiency of one or a few employees by say 3%. However, many such small improvements have massive compound effects.
lostcolony 9y ago
I would contend those fixes -do- add to the bottom line. Making a user's job take less time frees them to do other things. Those other things may have value; that value is only captured because of the time saved due to your effort. Even if that time becomes effectively 'free' time for the user, that increase in happiness and morale makes them more likely to be more productive in other areas, less likely to leave the company (however small an effect), etc. Don't dismiss something that makes someone's life easier as having no monetary value just because you can't easily quantify it.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- harlanji 9y ago
  Sounds theoretical. Salary is fixed and if there’s a supply of alternative workers and resource scarcity mentality then allowing employees free time makes them more valuable to and easier to engage by competitors. Qualatative arguments go out the window when the shoe strings tighten in my experience. My ideals agree and I’ve banged my head trying to maintain boundaries with my managers, now 5 jobs in. Experience is with VC in Bay Area... work life in Minneapolis was pretty chill tho, 2 longer jobs there with good people.
  - zrobotics 9y ago
    Alternatively, the time saved allows them to move onto other tasks and accomplish more in a day. Saving 30 seconds on a database query can add up to years of time in a large company. It's not that uncommon for hardware engineers to be issued a company credit card, simply for the time saved vs bugging a manager for a purchase order for a $5.00 digikey order.
    - Hextinium 9y ago
      So much this, if an engineer is paid $50 a hour and it takes 30 seconds to load a prompt. Loading the promt just cost the company 40 cents. If they have to run that promt 3 times a day then it's $500 a year that can be saved by just optimization.
deepGem 9y ago
I once wrote a packaging script that saved 2 man weeks of recurring work. Not the swankiest or the most challenging job I did, but it was immensely gratifying, since this time was directly billed to customers. So yes, fixing small non-critical issues can be very rewarding.
Jemmeh 9y ago
I too love fixing things where I can see the person's reaction. It is so satisfying. We are so often removed from the user and don't get that joy. I think as a dev it's a good exercise too, to stay grounded and avoid feature creep or working on things that don't matter too much. I always to try -think- about how my user will be reacting, but that's different than actually -seeing- it. I think it's part of why I like UX(though I do full stack), at the end of the day I like solving problems for people and making software that's pleasant to use. I've seen so many people struggle with an unnecessarily complex interface and it hurts my soul. The relief on people's faces when they can fix their issue quickly is so satisfying.
- yoobi55 9y ago
  I'm currently a solo UX at a start up, and I have dabbled with FE dev for past few years. I am a bit frustrated with how the FE operates with this company, they don't seem to care about ensuring good UX, I'm not even involved in their sprint cycle, they just build things AND THEN ask me to fix the UX if someone points out how terrible the products are. (And obviously with TONS of restrictions saying the codebase/architecture wouldn't allow it - smh) I understand I'm still new to the company(4months), but this has been by far the worst design-FE collaboration I've ever experienced. I tried to schedule a meeting to address these issues in a professional manner, but they canceled it and said it's not important for the company now. I really take joy in solving problems for people with good UX but now I just come in to work to design CEO pitch decks in PPT and get paychecks... the pay is alright but it is really not rewarding at all professionally. Should I jump this ship? Do you guys have any advice for me?
  - Jemmeh 9y ago
    I do think in some ways, because UX is constantly being pushed back even though it shouldn't be...you do kinda have to learn to work with what you've got. Programming is like that too. There's weird restrictions from legal, stupid restrictions from the platform, some off the wall glitch that you have to work around, etc. Sometimes small UX changes are hard to implement in code and it ends up not being worth doing. I haven't worked in a startup before. But it's strange to me that a start up would have someone on hand who's work is "not important for the company right now." Aren't startups supposed to run lean? If they won't even -talk- to you about it I feel like your options are limited. If you could actually discuss it, then yeah, maybe you could figure out how to move forward. But 4 months is a long time to not be contributing at all. Though I know that security and UX both suffer from being pushed to the side in favor of new shiny features. I would: A.) Have not a full blown meeting, but a 2 minute conversation. Figure out a short example of how not planning UX ahead of time has failed and is hurting the business currently. Then explain "We could prevent this by..." Present problem and your solution. B.) Use this time to study. This would help with the startup(once they get themselves together) and also your career. Maybe you need more FE dev skills to figure out how to fit the UX in with what they are doing. C.) Yeah, start putting feelers out. I personally would hate to sit there not contributing. Don't just quit(I assume you need to eat), but there's no harm in just talking to people and seeing what's out there if you really can't make it work at the startup.
tabtab 9y ago
Similarly, I find making life easier for regular workers quite satisfying. When they say, "Oh, this gizmo or change makes my job/task sooo much easier and reliable than the last process. Thank You!", I gleam for months. It's better than a raise to me. One accounting clerk was so happy she baked my favorite cookies for me. Too many focus on kissing up to the big-wigs, which works to get them more money and status, but I feel I make a real impact by helping the rank and file.
SnowingXIV 9y ago
Very much so this. There was a strong request for a better solution for the company's database system and I finagled some off-the-shelf solutions but I knew it wasn't great and there was a lot of clunkiness. The users figured this was as good as it gets just had to deal. I wanted to change that. The workflow was pretty unique and there wasn't much out there that could tackle it in the right manner with price constraints in mind. I set off to rebuild something from the ground-up but tailored exactly to what the users wanted (I kept track of all the complaints of previous solutions). Because this is specific to the company, I was able to make many of the routine tasks automated and reduce time users needed to spend with the tools. Now they actually enjoy when they do! There is no gimmicky extra stuff, it's just software that solves their day-to-day problems. The application I built is super boring, nothing groundbreaking or inventive, but it works. Seeing it run smoothly in production and having people enjoy the UI/get to spend more time on other things has been quite gratifying.
- Kaos-Industries 9y ago
  Early 20s figuring out career options here. I’m curious, what is your job role?
rcdmd 9y ago
You have my sincere thanks for prioritizing workflow improvement. In healthcare IT, so many decisions are made without stakeholder input, leading to truly bizarre interfaces and less time I get to spend with each patient. There are some exceptions, and there are limitations (meeting HI-TECH requirements, etc), but workflow generally seems an afterthought (well, 1 of 3 places I was at had things right-- probably tellingly, system was designed by MD programmers). I remember running into a UX-programmer in a hospital elevator excitedly asking my thoughts about the recent "upgrade" to the computer system. Basically IT made aesthetic changes (larger, fancier buttons) with 1-5 second animations (including delays) each time you pressed them. I suspect they didn't test the software on the VMware machines we used, which had crippled specs. You can imagine my feedback-- (20 patients * 40 button presses per patient * 5 seconds per button press = 1 hour wasted each working day waiting on that obnoxious UI. That translates to 1 hour of lost sleep per night.

by Liquix 9y ago

dmead 9y ago

This is definitely not an answer.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
logicallee 9y ago
I'm trying to read your comment charitably[1], since it's "obviously" wrong (as wrong as if you said, "hard to put this advice into practice since most professional programmers have never worked in a company that has any business processes or tools, and it's not really possible to start working in one that does have one") I say this because your parent post is "obviously" a great response that directly answers the question. So, if I want to read your comment charitably: a lot of technical people are poorly in touch with their feelings. Maybe you are right about Liquix, and they poorly report their most rewarding experience. At a guess what would you say is likely more gratifying (the meaning of rewarding) for Liquix? What would a better answer to the question be? I really have trouble guessing why you would write this, unless you thought rewarding meant "highest-paid" (not the usual sense of the word.) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_charity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_charity

codingdave 9y ago

I tend to agree -- I am sure people are hoping for an answer about joining a mission-driven small company and changing the world. But Enterprise IT in a large company gives you that daily hit of small successes, helping one or two people to have a better day and improved tools. It comes with downsides, too, which I'm sure this community can rant about ad nauseum. But truly, if your primary goal above all other things is to have the experience of making someone's day better as an every day occurrence, one should be doing application support in large corp.

christophilus 9y ago

I can second this. I think it is an answer, to counter the other commenter. There are businesses that are built on the idea of coming in and streamlining processes and inefficiencies. This could fall into that category.

jpmoyn 9y ago

I spend a lot of time developing internal tools to make my company's operations team's life easier, and I agree it feels good! It's nice that people appreciate it as well. Not every coding task is rewarded with praise, so it's nice when they are!

koliber 9y ago

Exactly! I would argue though that such improvements do not have an impact on the bottom line. Sure, any one of them may improve the efficiency of one or a few employees by say 3%. However, many such small improvements have massive compound effects.

lostcolony 9y ago

I would contend those fixes -do- add to the bottom line. Making a user's job take less time frees them to do other things. Those other things may have value; that value is only captured because of the time saved due to your effort. Even if that time becomes effectively 'free' time for the user, that increase in happiness and morale makes them more likely to be more productive in other areas, less likely to leave the company (however small an effect), etc. Don't dismiss something that makes someone's life easier as having no monetary value just because you can't easily quantify it.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
harlanji 9y ago
Sounds theoretical. Salary is fixed and if there’s a supply of alternative workers and resource scarcity mentality then allowing employees free time makes them more valuable to and easier to engage by competitors. Qualatative arguments go out the window when the shoe strings tighten in my experience. My ideals agree and I’ve banged my head trying to maintain boundaries with my managers, now 5 jobs in. Experience is with VC in Bay Area... work life in Minneapolis was pretty chill tho, 2 longer jobs there with good people.
- zrobotics 9y ago
  Alternatively, the time saved allows them to move onto other tasks and accomplish more in a day. Saving 30 seconds on a database query can add up to years of time in a large company. It's not that uncommon for hardware engineers to be issued a company credit card, simply for the time saved vs bugging a manager for a purchase order for a $5.00 digikey order.
  - Hextinium 9y ago
    So much this, if an engineer is paid $50 a hour and it takes 30 seconds to load a prompt. Loading the promt just cost the company 40 cents. If they have to run that promt 3 times a day then it's $500 a year that can be saved by just optimization.

deepGem 9y ago

I once wrote a packaging script that saved 2 man weeks of recurring work. Not the swankiest or the most challenging job I did, but it was immensely gratifying, since this time was directly billed to customers. So yes, fixing small non-critical issues can be very rewarding.

Jemmeh 9y ago

I too love fixing things where I can see the person's reaction. It is so satisfying. We are so often removed from the user and don't get that joy. I think as a dev it's a good exercise too, to stay grounded and avoid feature creep or working on things that don't matter too much. I always to try -think- about how my user will be reacting, but that's different than actually -seeing- it. I think it's part of why I like UX(though I do full stack), at the end of the day I like solving problems for people and making software that's pleasant to use. I've seen so many people struggle with an unnecessarily complex interface and it hurts my soul. The relief on people's faces when they can fix their issue quickly is so satisfying.

yoobi55 9y ago
I'm currently a solo UX at a start up, and I have dabbled with FE dev for past few years. I am a bit frustrated with how the FE operates with this company, they don't seem to care about ensuring good UX, I'm not even involved in their sprint cycle, they just build things AND THEN ask me to fix the UX if someone points out how terrible the products are. (And obviously with TONS of restrictions saying the codebase/architecture wouldn't allow it - smh) I understand I'm still new to the company(4months), but this has been by far the worst design-FE collaboration I've ever experienced. I tried to schedule a meeting to address these issues in a professional manner, but they canceled it and said it's not important for the company now. I really take joy in solving problems for people with good UX but now I just come in to work to design CEO pitch decks in PPT and get paychecks... the pay is alright but it is really not rewarding at all professionally. Should I jump this ship? Do you guys have any advice for me?
- Jemmeh 9y ago
  I do think in some ways, because UX is constantly being pushed back even though it shouldn't be...you do kinda have to learn to work with what you've got. Programming is like that too. There's weird restrictions from legal, stupid restrictions from the platform, some off the wall glitch that you have to work around, etc. Sometimes small UX changes are hard to implement in code and it ends up not being worth doing. I haven't worked in a startup before. But it's strange to me that a start up would have someone on hand who's work is "not important for the company right now." Aren't startups supposed to run lean? If they won't even -talk- to you about it I feel like your options are limited. If you could actually discuss it, then yeah, maybe you could figure out how to move forward. But 4 months is a long time to not be contributing at all. Though I know that security and UX both suffer from being pushed to the side in favor of new shiny features. I would: A.) Have not a full blown meeting, but a 2 minute conversation. Figure out a short example of how not planning UX ahead of time has failed and is hurting the business currently. Then explain "We could prevent this by..." Present problem and your solution. B.) Use this time to study. This would help with the startup(once they get themselves together) and also your career. Maybe you need more FE dev skills to figure out how to fit the UX in with what they are doing. C.) Yeah, start putting feelers out. I personally would hate to sit there not contributing. Don't just quit(I assume you need to eat), but there's no harm in just talking to people and seeing what's out there if you really can't make it work at the startup.

tabtab 9y ago

Similarly, I find making life easier for regular workers quite satisfying. When they say, "Oh, this gizmo or change makes my job/task sooo much easier and reliable than the last process. Thank You!", I gleam for months. It's better than a raise to me. One accounting clerk was so happy she baked my favorite cookies for me. Too many focus on kissing up to the big-wigs, which works to get them more money and status, but I feel I make a real impact by helping the rank and file.

SnowingXIV 9y ago

Very much so this. There was a strong request for a better solution for the company's database system and I finagled some off-the-shelf solutions but I knew it wasn't great and there was a lot of clunkiness. The users figured this was as good as it gets just had to deal. I wanted to change that. The workflow was pretty unique and there wasn't much out there that could tackle it in the right manner with price constraints in mind. I set off to rebuild something from the ground-up but tailored exactly to what the users wanted (I kept track of all the complaints of previous solutions). Because this is specific to the company, I was able to make many of the routine tasks automated and reduce time users needed to spend with the tools. Now they actually enjoy when they do! There is no gimmicky extra stuff, it's just software that solves their day-to-day problems. The application I built is super boring, nothing groundbreaking or inventive, but it works. Seeing it run smoothly in production and having people enjoy the UI/get to spend more time on other things has been quite gratifying.

Kaos-Industries 9y ago
Early 20s figuring out career options here. I’m curious, what is your job role?

rcdmd 9y ago

You have my sincere thanks for prioritizing workflow improvement. In healthcare IT, so many decisions are made without stakeholder input, leading to truly bizarre interfaces and less time I get to spend with each patient. There are some exceptions, and there are limitations (meeting HI-TECH requirements, etc), but workflow generally seems an afterthought (well, 1 of 3 places I was at had things right-- probably tellingly, system was designed by MD programmers). I remember running into a UX-programmer in a hospital elevator excitedly asking my thoughts about the recent "upgrade" to the computer system. Basically IT made aesthetic changes (larger, fancier buttons) with 1-5 second animations (including delays) each time you pressed them. I suspect they didn't test the software on the VMware machines we used, which had crippled specs. You can imagine my feedback-- (20 patients * 40 button presses per patient * 5 seconds per button press = 1 hour wasted each working day waiting on that obnoxious UI. That translates to 1 hour of lost sleep per night.