5 ms·

Serious question; why isn't Magic the Gathering illegal? Don't booster packs perform the same function.

JackCh 8y ago
Just a guess, but perhaps these card collecting games haven't received the same degree of negative attention because to outsiders the card game aspect obscures the collecting/gambling aspect. With CS:Go skins it may be more obvious to people since skins are something completely extraneous tacked onto the 'real' game, whereas with the card collecting games the cards are an essential component of playing the 'real' game. Another hypothesis is that video game players who don't partake in loot boxe gambling have become ticked off (perhaps because they perceive the gameplay to be neglected by companies who make their real money from these loot boxes.) These anti-loot video game players may then become activists against loot boxes, drawing broader public attention to the issue. Card collection games probably don't attract/create as many motivated activists calling for regulation and reform.
bobthepanda 8y ago
In my childhood, trading cards were often banned in schools because they caused issues related to the gambling aspect.
wccrawford 8y ago
Someone above did some Googling and concluded that Loot Boxes have 10x the spending that MtG does. It's already a bigger market, despite its relative newness. This suddenly boom in popularity and the discussions that it has caused has likely caused it to be brought to light more strongly. It's very possible that we'll see them start to aim at physical grab-bags soon as well.
PeterStuer 8y ago
At the time it was considered, but the randomness in the packs was considered a 'sales tactic', not gambling. (I'm not sure wether Carta Mundi, the printer for a.o Magic the Gathering being a Belgian company had anything to do with it). Loot boxes otoh are compared to slot machines. I know it sounds 'illogical', as they both at first glance seem alike, but there are aspects of difference to consider. Loot boxes are generally packaged with 'addiction triggering' opening ceremonies. Furthermore, the probabilities are not publishes (afaik they are for trading card games), and the digital platform also enables for far more ingenious addiction/purchase/retention inducing psychological gaming than physical card packs.
- rightos 8y ago
  > addiction triggering Sorry, but virtual flames shooting out of a box and a "here, you lost" screen doesn't exactly stimulate a dopamine response.
  - PeterStuer 8y ago
    from https://www.pcgamer.com/behind-the-addictive-psychology-and-seductive-art-of-loot-boxes/ https://www.pcgamer.com/behind-the-addictive-psychology-and-... Overwatch's loot box is a masterpiece of audio-visual design. "It's all about building the anticipation. When the box is there you're excited at the possibilities of what could be inside," says senior game designer Jeremy Craig. Click the ‘Open loot box’ button and the box bursts open, sending four disks into the sky. Their rarity is indicated by coloured streaks to further build the suspense. "Seeing purple or gold you start to think about what specific legendary or epic you've unlocked. This all happens so fast, but it was those discrete steps that we felt maximized excitement and anticipation."
    - rightos 8y ago
      Nothing about that sounds substantially addiction producing. Just flashy and designed, like anything else in a video game. Is there a proper study on that being a substantial addiction causing effect compared to card games and such? I've seen people lose ridiculous amounts on completely boring gambling games like SatoshiDice where all they do is push send. The fact that you get the random outcome seems much more likely to be the primary culprit than any flash effects around it. I get the impression people saying that are just making excuses because they don't like loot boxes as a business model for games. Would you be accepting of it if they replaced it in the game with a simple click and get the result system?
aldanor 8y ago
Just rename it to Magic the Gambling for clarity
Pinckney 8y ago
Surely this is gambling, at least. https://www.ebay.com/itm/MTG-Magic-Repack-BLACK-LOTUS-booster-pack-masterpiece-masters-birthday-present-/173051737536 https://www.ebay.com/itm/MTG-Magic-Repack-BLACK-LOTUS-booste...

Just a guess, but perhaps these card collecting games haven't received the same degree of negative attention because to outsiders the card game aspect obscures the collecting/gambling aspect. With CS:Go skins it may be more obvious to people since skins are something completely extraneous tacked onto the 'real' game, whereas with the card collecting games the cards are an essential component of playing the 'real' game. Another hypothesis is that video game players who don't partake in loot boxe gambling have become ticked off (perhaps because they perceive the gameplay to be neglected by companies who make their real money from these loot boxes.) These anti-loot video game players may then become activists against loot boxes, drawing broader public attention to the issue. Card collection games probably don't attract/create as many motivated activists calling for regulation and reform.

bobthepanda 8y ago

In my childhood, trading cards were often banned in schools because they caused issues related to the gambling aspect.

wccrawford 8y ago

Someone above did some Googling and concluded that Loot Boxes have 10x the spending that MtG does. It's already a bigger market, despite its relative newness. This suddenly boom in popularity and the discussions that it has caused has likely caused it to be brought to light more strongly. It's very possible that we'll see them start to aim at physical grab-bags soon as well.

PeterStuer 8y ago

At the time it was considered, but the randomness in the packs was considered a 'sales tactic', not gambling. (I'm not sure wether Carta Mundi, the printer for a.o Magic the Gathering being a Belgian company had anything to do with it). Loot boxes otoh are compared to slot machines. I know it sounds 'illogical', as they both at first glance seem alike, but there are aspects of difference to consider. Loot boxes are generally packaged with 'addiction triggering' opening ceremonies. Furthermore, the probabilities are not publishes (afaik they are for trading card games), and the digital platform also enables for far more ingenious addiction/purchase/retention inducing psychological gaming than physical card packs.

rightos 8y ago
> addiction triggering Sorry, but virtual flames shooting out of a box and a "here, you lost" screen doesn't exactly stimulate a dopamine response.
- PeterStuer 8y ago
  from https://www.pcgamer.com/behind-the-addictive-psychology-and-seductive-art-of-loot-boxes/ https://www.pcgamer.com/behind-the-addictive-psychology-and-... Overwatch's loot box is a masterpiece of audio-visual design. "It's all about building the anticipation. When the box is there you're excited at the possibilities of what could be inside," says senior game designer Jeremy Craig. Click the ‘Open loot box’ button and the box bursts open, sending four disks into the sky. Their rarity is indicated by coloured streaks to further build the suspense. "Seeing purple or gold you start to think about what specific legendary or epic you've unlocked. This all happens so fast, but it was those discrete steps that we felt maximized excitement and anticipation."
  - rightos 8y ago
    Nothing about that sounds substantially addiction producing. Just flashy and designed, like anything else in a video game. Is there a proper study on that being a substantial addiction causing effect compared to card games and such? I've seen people lose ridiculous amounts on completely boring gambling games like SatoshiDice where all they do is push send. The fact that you get the random outcome seems much more likely to be the primary culprit than any flash effects around it. I get the impression people saying that are just making excuses because they don't like loot boxes as a business model for games. Would you be accepting of it if they replaced it in the game with a simple click and get the result system?

aldanor 8y ago

Just rename it to Magic the Gambling for clarity

Pinckney 8y ago

Surely this is gambling, at least. https://www.ebay.com/itm/MTG-Magic-Repack-BLACK-LOTUS-booster-pack-masterpiece-masters-birthday-present-/173051737536 https://www.ebay.com/itm/MTG-Magic-Repack-BLACK-LOTUS-booste...