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If I'm not mistaken it's in game "boxes" that you can buy. These boxes contains items that may help your progression in the game. The trick is that you don't kn

by wiz21c 9y ago

If I'm not mistaken it's in game "boxes" that you can buy. These boxes contains items that may help your progression in the game. The trick is that you don't know what's in the box when you buy it. I didn't read the judgement though. I think it's the progfression thing that is the problem. There are games where you can buy loot boxes but they don't influence your progression, that's just a "surprise", like "Kinder's eggs". Im' fine with that I think it's a good thing because loot boxes are bought by children and they don't realize that it's a game of luck. But at the same time, there are things such as "Panini figures", stickers that you collect that work the same. When you buy a pack of stickers, you don't know what you'll get. And since the aim of the stickers is to fill a stickers' book, well, that's comparable to me... Dunno... Not sure...

larkeith 9y ago
Skimming the article, it mentions they banned Overwatch, which has only cosmetic rewards from lootboxes ("skins" which change what your in-game character looks like slightly), so it would seem they're banning even non-progression related lootboxes. Personally, I'm rather happy to see this action being taken; loot boxes are a predatory and frequently deceptive business model.
- wiz21c 9y ago
  In case the game progression is not affected by the content of the boxes, how is it deceptive (honestly, I have that talk with my kids) ?
  - candiodari 9y ago
    It's not that it's deceptive, it's that it's a game of chance. Which is perfectly OK, as long as you're part of the government mandated monopoly on such games or have a license.
  - larkeith 9y ago
    Frequently, viewing the "contents" of a box (the potential rewards) displays each item in a row, with no indicator of a difference in drop chance except the background colour, despite some items being twenty or so times more likely to be rewarded. If there is text indicating the variable probability, it is usually subdued and easily overlooked. Furthermore, some games silently vary the probability of drops based on prior results (without informing the player), a strategy designed to reinforce the Gambler's Fallacy and ensure users continue to open loot boxes after the first few.
    - wiz21c 9y ago
      >>> Furthermore, some games silently vary the probability of drops based on prior results (without informing the player), a strategy designed to reinforce the Gambler's Fallacy and ensure users continue to open loot boxes after the first few. OK, I understand. I naively thought that it was real luck at play. But you explain it's manipulated. If that's the problem, then I fully understand the gov't position.
- Thiez 9y ago
  > Personally, I'm rather happy to see this action being taken; loot boxes are a predatory and frequently deceptive business model. Are they? In Overwatch you only get cosmetic items, and you cannot trade them (so it's hard to argue they have financial value). In addition, when you would get a duplicate item you get in-game coins instead, and those coins can also be exchanged for cosmetic items. Personally I think the mandatory animation when you open a lootbox takes too long so I've simply stopped opening them a while ago. I think I now have 20 unopened lootboxes? Compare with Steam, where you could (can?) get "free" loot boxes, but you'd have to buy a key with real money to open them, and then the contents were random (but tradable with other players, for money). Now there's a company that is clearly begging to get banned by anti-gambling laws.
  - larkeith 9y ago
    While I agree that, on the whole, Overwatch's model (cosmetic only, non-tradeable) is less negative than those in which there is a secondary market, I'm still not a fan of including unregulated gambling-like mechanics in games with a demographic of primarily teenagers. However, this is entirely my view on underage gambling at work. From a less personal perspective, Valve's products are much more blatantly akin to gambling; I see very little reason not to apply the same regulations to Dota or CS:GO loot boxes as would apply to any online casino.
Al-Khwarizmi 9y ago
I think those stickers were useful for me and my classmates to learn about economy when I was a child. We traded with them and the rarest ones naturally fetched very high values (in terms of other stickers), so we got to experiment scarcity of resources, supply and demand, etc. I never thought of opening a random pack of stickers and gambling, but you definitely have a point. It is not trivial where to draw the line. In my case, I had a lot of fun (and no gambling addiction) with stickers, and even more with Magic the Gathering a few years later! (and I made some actual money with MtG card speculation when I was like 14). Virtual loot boxes I see as quite evil though, I need to think for a while on what the differences are. Perhaps it's just prejudices due to my age but I never knew stickers or MtG gambling addicts and with loot boxes there seems to be much more risk of addiction.

by wiz21c 9y ago

larkeith 9y ago

Skimming the article, it mentions they banned Overwatch, which has only cosmetic rewards from lootboxes ("skins" which change what your in-game character looks like slightly), so it would seem they're banning even non-progression related lootboxes. Personally, I'm rather happy to see this action being taken; loot boxes are a predatory and frequently deceptive business model.

wiz21c 9y ago
In case the game progression is not affected by the content of the boxes, how is it deceptive (honestly, I have that talk with my kids) ?
- candiodari 9y ago
  It's not that it's deceptive, it's that it's a game of chance. Which is perfectly OK, as long as you're part of the government mandated monopoly on such games or have a license.
- larkeith 9y ago
  Frequently, viewing the "contents" of a box (the potential rewards) displays each item in a row, with no indicator of a difference in drop chance except the background colour, despite some items being twenty or so times more likely to be rewarded. If there is text indicating the variable probability, it is usually subdued and easily overlooked. Furthermore, some games silently vary the probability of drops based on prior results (without informing the player), a strategy designed to reinforce the Gambler's Fallacy and ensure users continue to open loot boxes after the first few.
  - wiz21c 9y ago
    >>> Furthermore, some games silently vary the probability of drops based on prior results (without informing the player), a strategy designed to reinforce the Gambler's Fallacy and ensure users continue to open loot boxes after the first few. OK, I understand. I naively thought that it was real luck at play. But you explain it's manipulated. If that's the problem, then I fully understand the gov't position.
Thiez 9y ago
> Personally, I'm rather happy to see this action being taken; loot boxes are a predatory and frequently deceptive business model. Are they? In Overwatch you only get cosmetic items, and you cannot trade them (so it's hard to argue they have financial value). In addition, when you would get a duplicate item you get in-game coins instead, and those coins can also be exchanged for cosmetic items. Personally I think the mandatory animation when you open a lootbox takes too long so I've simply stopped opening them a while ago. I think I now have 20 unopened lootboxes? Compare with Steam, where you could (can?) get "free" loot boxes, but you'd have to buy a key with real money to open them, and then the contents were random (but tradable with other players, for money). Now there's a company that is clearly begging to get banned by anti-gambling laws.
- larkeith 9y ago
  While I agree that, on the whole, Overwatch's model (cosmetic only, non-tradeable) is less negative than those in which there is a secondary market, I'm still not a fan of including unregulated gambling-like mechanics in games with a demographic of primarily teenagers. However, this is entirely my view on underage gambling at work. From a less personal perspective, Valve's products are much more blatantly akin to gambling; I see very little reason not to apply the same regulations to Dota or CS:GO loot boxes as would apply to any online casino.

Al-Khwarizmi 9y ago

I think those stickers were useful for me and my classmates to learn about economy when I was a child. We traded with them and the rarest ones naturally fetched very high values (in terms of other stickers), so we got to experiment scarcity of resources, supply and demand, etc. I never thought of opening a random pack of stickers and gambling, but you definitely have a point. It is not trivial where to draw the line. In my case, I had a lot of fun (and no gambling addiction) with stickers, and even more with Magic the Gathering a few years later! (and I made some actual money with MtG card speculation when I was like 14). Virtual loot boxes I see as quite evil though, I need to think for a while on what the differences are. Perhaps it's just prejudices due to my age but I never knew stickers or MtG gambling addicts and with loot boxes there seems to be much more risk of addiction.