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I've seen this sentiment echoed over and over on here. I'm always wondering why people continue to order Macs. It's very rare that I see positive comments about

I've seen this sentiment echoed over and over on here. I'm always wondering why people continue to order Macs. It's very rare that I see positive comments about the touchbar. The reason can't be because macos is better, since there are tons of complaints on here about that too. The hardware is definitely not the best anymore. So why are people still buying them?

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
headsoup 9y ago
Probably much the same reason people continue to buy Windows: the software that is not supported on other platforms (or is used company/team wide).
bsder 9y ago
Because the 2015 Macbook Pro Retina's were pretty damn good relative to basically anything else at the time but were in dire need of a refresh. Everybody assumed that the refresh would take a winning formula and adjust it a little bit. Nobody assumed that Apple would completely screw up the keyboard, hose things with the touch bar, abuse people by only having USB-C ports, kill the MagSafe power, and still not offer modern processor and memory specs. Everybody then assumed that when all these problems came out, Apple would own up and make it right. The fact that Apple is NOT doing that is finally pissing people off.
- myl 9y ago
  I agree on everything!
- 2RTZZSro 9y ago
  2015 Macbook Pro Retina w/ Integrated Graphics is the best laptop computer of all time
peteretep 9y ago
> The reason can't be because macos is better, since there are tons of complaints on here about that too. That ... doesn't follow. It's OS X that I buy Macs for. I have a very small number of complaints about it, but many more about every other OS I've ever used. Like mutt: it sucks less. Also: I loved my previous Mac devices. I don't love my recent MacBook Pro. But the next Mac I buy in a few years time, they'll probably have fixed it up by then. Switching to a whole new ecosystem for the interim strikes me as crazy.
- y4mi 9y ago
  > Like mutt: it sucks less. that depends entirely on what your daily activities are. If you're a web developer and are somewhat competent, you'd be best served with fedora or ubuntu. You're able to fully customize your system, use tiling window managers such as i3wm and can actually use the same daemons as the production system will be using. If you're a designer that uses the Adobe Suite, there is little difference between osx and windows. both work most of the time and have their own faults and upsites. if you're already in the apple ecosphere, there is little reason to change to windows - as there isn't really anything better there. Nor is there a reason to switch to mac from windows... If you're a gamer, there really isn't anything but windows -- even today. Its gotten better with Steam, but the performance hit for non-windows systems is brutal. If you're just an average user that only wants to use facebook, webmail and browse the internet, you'd be best served with a chromebook/chromebox. That literally just works with no manual configuration necessary anywhere. Its just that there is very little you can do on it. (The Android integration is still beta, so that doesn't count) this list is obviously not exhaustive. I'm just trying to make a point with some examples.
  - welly 9y ago
    Who really wants to fully customise their system? I'm not interested in spending time and effort customising my OS, I'd rather use that time to do work or use my laptop for entertainment. I'd rather it works proficiently out of the box and I mostly get that from osx/macos, with a few minor customisations I've built up over time. I'm sure being able to fully customise your system is appealing to some, the rest of us just want to get stuff done. Ps. Web developer since 1994.
crispinb 9y ago
There can be a fair bit of inertia involved in using an OS. Like most mac users, I complain about the direction of macOS while still preferring it to the alternatives. And I have time & money invested in software & a well-established configuration that I would rather not ditch. In the end I care about my work, for which the os is no more than a support, so I don't want to invest attention or time on a transition. Personally, the touch bar is a bridge too far and I won't be buying another mac. But it does take something like this (which I consider pretty egregious) to push me over the edge, so I can understand why others might choose otherwise.
manicdee 9y ago
Perhaps Mac users are pickier so complain more which is why they left Windows in the first place. So the Windows user base is less picky because the Mac user base is more picky.
mvdwoord 9y ago
It's a UNIXy system, that actually works with the hardware. Closing the lid mostly. In 20 years I haven't seen a single Win/Linux laptop that worked (on decently specced HW). Oh sure, tons of "I have a perfectly working linux on x" but drilling down it always boils down to fiddling, updating, manually correcting some value somewhere, tweaking.. etc. I switched to a mac some 8 years ago on the desktop and 6 years ago as my daily driver laptop. I would love to break out of the apple ecosystem for something more free but I just have not been convinced it exists yet. With all the complaints about macos, rightfully so, quality seems to be degrading somehwat, the HW/SW combination is still unbeaten in my book. I run Fusion on it, with a Windows Server VM and Linux VM w shared homedir so I can run whatever tools best fit for the job. Only real gripe is memory limit of 16GB. Oh and the touchbar. Fuck the touchbar. Could have been nice as an addition above the Fn key row. Now let's hope my keyboard holds out ;)
- SuperMechaCow 9y ago
  I have a Dell Inspiron 17r 7720 and a Macbook made in the same year. Spec for spec they are very comparable machines, but if I had to choose I would pick the Dell every time. I've used Ubuntu on it for years with zero "fiddling" required. Windows 10 is on a physical SSD, but with one command it's configured to run on a VM in Ubuntu. Many people have gotten Mac OS to run natively on the Dell, but I decided to spend hundreds on a Macbook instead because to the enormous amount of "fiddling" it would have taken. TL;DR: I've had the opposite experience as you.
  - mvdwoord 9y ago
    Sounds good, a quick scan of the reviews show lots of praise. Wondering about battery life though, and I would still need to see it for myself before I'm convinced. I am optimistic though, seriously think that when my current macbook is up for replacement there will be a handful of capable machines with proper (HW) linux support. For me however, lacking that positive first hand experience is what makes me keep ordering macs.. for now.
- shaklee3 9y ago
  I have a yoga 900 and Ubuntu works perfectly out of the box. I didn't check to make sure it would work before buying it, but have been dual-booting almost since day one.
FPGAhacker 9y ago
“It’s very rare that I see positive comments about the touchbar” My wife likes hers. However, people are always more vocal about things they don’t like. We expect things to work right, and when they do, it is not supposed to be a remarkable event. It’s supposed to be normal. Crap not working right is infuriating and we let everyone know about that stuff. That said, you can learn a lot from negative comments by seeing if the things that people complain about would bother you or not. Negative commentary by itself doesn’t matter if what people complain about is irrelevant to you. On the contrary, if all people can find to complain about is stuff that doesn’t matter to you, you are golden. Touchbar complaints that matter to me are primary escape key related. Otherwise it’s just meh to me. On my work keyboard the escape key is awkward so I mostly use ctrl-[. And I think my iPad “smart” keyboard doesn’t even have escape so that has reinforced it for me. I don’t really notice much anymore. So the escape key isn’t a deal breaker for me. I mostly just don’t care about the touch bar. Don’t have one on my computer though. However, the thin mbpr keyboards sound like thunder and that drives me nuts. The key breakage/stop working deal would suck but I can’t gauge how common that really is. They all make abnoxious noise though. I won’t upgrade until that is fixed. I’d give up my establishment in the macOS ecosystem and go Linux with a thinkpad maybe.
petercooper 9y ago
The current MBP is by far my favorite. The keyboard breaking is very annoying and the touchbar is nothing special but doesn't impede me. Beyond that, though, 1) the cooling is the best, every previous model melted my lap, 2) I absolutely love the flexibility of USB-C, 3) I can charge whatever side suits the cable better which depends on where I am, 4) I can use powerbanks for emergency juice, 5) the screen is brighter than ever, 6) it's thinner and lighter than the previous gen, 7) the SSD is faster than the previous gen by quite a bit, 8) ditched the MagSafe proprietary power connector, I now use generic USB-3 stuff and have numerous chargers that work fine. USB-C's withdrawal tension is just right to avoid all the issues MagSafe helped with.
dsego 9y ago
Because of how weird Windows users look at me when I just close the lid without turning the computer off. I've even gotten comments how "you shouldn't do that". Or when they ask why I don't plug the laptop in (this was more true a few years ago). Or why I don't use a mouse like a "normal person".
crispinb 9y ago
> The reason can't be because macos is better It can (at least with a suitable gloss on 'better'). For practical purposes there are only 3 OSs to choose from. I had determined to ditch macs because of the new fake keyboard, but having reacquainted myself with both linux & windows to prepare for the move, I'm now back to desperately hoping Apple brings out a MB with a real keyboard this year. All operating systems are horrible. MacOS is no exception, but it's the most manageable horror. It seems to me to be a bit like democracy: it's the worst except for all the others.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

headsoup 9y ago

Probably much the same reason people continue to buy Windows: the software that is not supported on other platforms (or is used company/team wide).

bsder 9y ago

Because the 2015 Macbook Pro Retina's were pretty damn good relative to basically anything else at the time but were in dire need of a refresh. Everybody assumed that the refresh would take a winning formula and adjust it a little bit. Nobody assumed that Apple would completely screw up the keyboard, hose things with the touch bar, abuse people by only having USB-C ports, kill the MagSafe power, and still not offer modern processor and memory specs. Everybody then assumed that when all these problems came out, Apple would own up and make it right. The fact that Apple is NOT doing that is finally pissing people off.

myl 9y ago
I agree on everything!
2RTZZSro 9y ago
2015 Macbook Pro Retina w/ Integrated Graphics is the best laptop computer of all time

peteretep 9y ago

> The reason can't be because macos is better, since there are tons of complaints on here about that too. That ... doesn't follow. It's OS X that I buy Macs for. I have a very small number of complaints about it, but many more about every other OS I've ever used. Like mutt: it sucks less. Also: I loved my previous Mac devices. I don't love my recent MacBook Pro. But the next Mac I buy in a few years time, they'll probably have fixed it up by then. Switching to a whole new ecosystem for the interim strikes me as crazy.

y4mi 9y ago
> Like mutt: it sucks less. that depends entirely on what your daily activities are. If you're a web developer and are somewhat competent, you'd be best served with fedora or ubuntu. You're able to fully customize your system, use tiling window managers such as i3wm and can actually use the same daemons as the production system will be using. If you're a designer that uses the Adobe Suite, there is little difference between osx and windows. both work most of the time and have their own faults and upsites. if you're already in the apple ecosphere, there is little reason to change to windows - as there isn't really anything better there. Nor is there a reason to switch to mac from windows... If you're a gamer, there really isn't anything but windows -- even today. Its gotten better with Steam, but the performance hit for non-windows systems is brutal. If you're just an average user that only wants to use facebook, webmail and browse the internet, you'd be best served with a chromebook/chromebox. That literally just works with no manual configuration necessary anywhere. Its just that there is very little you can do on it. (The Android integration is still beta, so that doesn't count) this list is obviously not exhaustive. I'm just trying to make a point with some examples.
- welly 9y ago
  Who really wants to fully customise their system? I'm not interested in spending time and effort customising my OS, I'd rather use that time to do work or use my laptop for entertainment. I'd rather it works proficiently out of the box and I mostly get that from osx/macos, with a few minor customisations I've built up over time. I'm sure being able to fully customise your system is appealing to some, the rest of us just want to get stuff done. Ps. Web developer since 1994.

crispinb 9y ago

There can be a fair bit of inertia involved in using an OS. Like most mac users, I complain about the direction of macOS while still preferring it to the alternatives. And I have time & money invested in software & a well-established configuration that I would rather not ditch. In the end I care about my work, for which the os is no more than a support, so I don't want to invest attention or time on a transition. Personally, the touch bar is a bridge too far and I won't be buying another mac. But it does take something like this (which I consider pretty egregious) to push me over the edge, so I can understand why others might choose otherwise.

manicdee 9y ago

Perhaps Mac users are pickier so complain more which is why they left Windows in the first place. So the Windows user base is less picky because the Mac user base is more picky.

mvdwoord 9y ago

It's a UNIXy system, that actually works with the hardware. Closing the lid mostly. In 20 years I haven't seen a single Win/Linux laptop that worked (on decently specced HW). Oh sure, tons of "I have a perfectly working linux on x" but drilling down it always boils down to fiddling, updating, manually correcting some value somewhere, tweaking.. etc. I switched to a mac some 8 years ago on the desktop and 6 years ago as my daily driver laptop. I would love to break out of the apple ecosystem for something more free but I just have not been convinced it exists yet. With all the complaints about macos, rightfully so, quality seems to be degrading somehwat, the HW/SW combination is still unbeaten in my book. I run Fusion on it, with a Windows Server VM and Linux VM w shared homedir so I can run whatever tools best fit for the job. Only real gripe is memory limit of 16GB. Oh and the touchbar. Fuck the touchbar. Could have been nice as an addition above the Fn key row. Now let's hope my keyboard holds out ;)

SuperMechaCow 9y ago
I have a Dell Inspiron 17r 7720 and a Macbook made in the same year. Spec for spec they are very comparable machines, but if I had to choose I would pick the Dell every time. I've used Ubuntu on it for years with zero "fiddling" required. Windows 10 is on a physical SSD, but with one command it's configured to run on a VM in Ubuntu. Many people have gotten Mac OS to run natively on the Dell, but I decided to spend hundreds on a Macbook instead because to the enormous amount of "fiddling" it would have taken. TL;DR: I've had the opposite experience as you.
- mvdwoord 9y ago
  Sounds good, a quick scan of the reviews show lots of praise. Wondering about battery life though, and I would still need to see it for myself before I'm convinced. I am optimistic though, seriously think that when my current macbook is up for replacement there will be a handful of capable machines with proper (HW) linux support. For me however, lacking that positive first hand experience is what makes me keep ordering macs.. for now.
shaklee3 9y ago
I have a yoga 900 and Ubuntu works perfectly out of the box. I didn't check to make sure it would work before buying it, but have been dual-booting almost since day one.

FPGAhacker 9y ago

“It’s very rare that I see positive comments about the touchbar” My wife likes hers. However, people are always more vocal about things they don’t like. We expect things to work right, and when they do, it is not supposed to be a remarkable event. It’s supposed to be normal. Crap not working right is infuriating and we let everyone know about that stuff. That said, you can learn a lot from negative comments by seeing if the things that people complain about would bother you or not. Negative commentary by itself doesn’t matter if what people complain about is irrelevant to you. On the contrary, if all people can find to complain about is stuff that doesn’t matter to you, you are golden. Touchbar complaints that matter to me are primary escape key related. Otherwise it’s just meh to me. On my work keyboard the escape key is awkward so I mostly use ctrl-[. And I think my iPad “smart” keyboard doesn’t even have escape so that has reinforced it for me. I don’t really notice much anymore. So the escape key isn’t a deal breaker for me. I mostly just don’t care about the touch bar. Don’t have one on my computer though. However, the thin mbpr keyboards sound like thunder and that drives me nuts. The key breakage/stop working deal would suck but I can’t gauge how common that really is. They all make abnoxious noise though. I won’t upgrade until that is fixed. I’d give up my establishment in the macOS ecosystem and go Linux with a thinkpad maybe.

petercooper 9y ago

The current MBP is by far my favorite. The keyboard breaking is very annoying and the touchbar is nothing special but doesn't impede me. Beyond that, though, 1) the cooling is the best, every previous model melted my lap, 2) I absolutely love the flexibility of USB-C, 3) I can charge whatever side suits the cable better which depends on where I am, 4) I can use powerbanks for emergency juice, 5) the screen is brighter than ever, 6) it's thinner and lighter than the previous gen, 7) the SSD is faster than the previous gen by quite a bit, 8) ditched the MagSafe proprietary power connector, I now use generic USB-3 stuff and have numerous chargers that work fine. USB-C's withdrawal tension is just right to avoid all the issues MagSafe helped with.

dsego 9y ago

Because of how weird Windows users look at me when I just close the lid without turning the computer off. I've even gotten comments how "you shouldn't do that". Or when they ask why I don't plug the laptop in (this was more true a few years ago). Or why I don't use a mouse like a "normal person".

crispinb 9y ago

> The reason can't be because macos is better It can (at least with a suitable gloss on 'better'). For practical purposes there are only 3 OSs to choose from. I had determined to ditch macs because of the new fake keyboard, but having reacquainted myself with both linux & windows to prepare for the move, I'm now back to desperately hoping Apple brings out a MB with a real keyboard this year. All operating systems are horrible. MacOS is no exception, but it's the most manageable horror. It seems to me to be a bit like democracy: it's the worst except for all the others.