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Controversial New Milk Shakes Up Big Dairy
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- garyvee_ 9y agoPaywall removed: https://outline.com/eVph3y https://outline.com/eVph3y As a lactard, I can attest—I tried this and didn’t have any indigestion problems. Maybe lactose intolerance is a hoax.
- sergers 9y agoI think alot of it is generalized without enough scientific analysis/limited by current technology. "Lactose intolerance" could be many different reactions that could be not lactose specifically with many individuals. Could be a byproduct commonly found with lactose(and maybe the a2 milk process removes that) (similar to how recent, debated, studies for gluten intolerance may not be specifically gluten for many people, could be a similar by product/chemical/reaction to something commonly produced with gluten).
- dragonwriter 9y ago> "Lactose intolerance" could be many different reactions It's not, it's pretty well understood. OTOH, lots of allergies to milk proteins are misidentified by sufferers of them as lactose intolerance, as they have vaguely similar superficial symptoms and are both negated by avoiding milk.
- lostlogin 9y agoExactly. But this is poorly understood by the general population and who is going to understand or know if a particular milk protein is present?
- Moru 9y agoIt's going to be heavily advertised if it hasn't started already, and then everyone will be lactose intollerant. Because someone that feels better using a more expensive product will keep buying the more expensive product as long as they feel better from it.
- maxerickson 9y agoYou could get some refined lactose and mix it in water to see. Use lots and you'll for sure know if you are lactase deficient.
- abrookewood 9y agoIt's not a hoax at all. The ability to digest lactose is due to a mutation in humans that began in Europe thousands of years ago. It's about as far from a hoax as you can get: You either produce the lactase enzyme (required to break down lactose) or you don't. 1. https://www.nature.com/news/archaeology-the-milk-revolution-1.13471 https://www.nature.com/news/archaeology-the-milk-revolution-... 2. https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/condition/lactose-intolerance#sourcesforpage https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/condition/lactose-intolerance#source...
- Moto7451 9y agoAs another linked article attests, this milk doesn’t do anything in regards to lactose. It instead is a milk that uses a less common (in the Western World) A2 type of Casein Protein instead of A1 type. There are various health claims about A2 and A1 that have nothing to do with lactose intolerance. Lactose is a sugar in milk, and casein the main protein component.
- DEFCON28 9y agoExactly. So if people claim that they are "lactose intolerant" and can drink A2 with no bad effect, they are not making much sense.
- jeffdavis 9y agoIt makes sense: they assumed they were lactose intolerant because they had digestive problems with milk; but then found out the problem is something else. That "something else" may be the A1 protein but they don't want to make assumptions too quickly this time.
- dragonwriter 9y ago> Maybe lactose intolerance is a hoax. It's clearly not, and the mechanism is well understood; however, lots of people who think they are lactose intolerant are mis-(and usually self-)diagnosed, and really have allergies to one or more proteins found in milk (and this has also been widely known for a long time), which is completely different than lactose intolerance.
- glastra 9y agoOr maybe it's not a hoax and you are misdiagnosed. You might have cow milk protein allergy/intolerance, which is an allergic reaction that happens only in the digestive tract. Try eating some dried/cured meat that has lactose added as a conservative. No issues? Not lactose intolerant. Try taking some medicine that has lactose added as a binding agent. No issues? Not lactose intolerant. Try eating any cured cheese such as Cheddar or Edam (0.0 g lactose, but check the carbs/sugars label to be sure). Issues? Not lactose intolerant. Try drinking normal milk and then the same thing with exogenous lactase (e.g. Lactaid). Issues without lactase, but no issues with it? Lactose intolerant. Issues with both or no issues with any? Not lactose intolerant. It's fairly easy to self-diagnose as long as you know how the intolerance works (an enzyme is missing in your digestive tract) and the lactose content of things.
- freedomben 9y agoBeen hearing from people IRL that have tried this and swear by it. Definitely time to give it a shot.
- gwern 9y agoAny of them blind it?
- freedomben 9y agoNot scientifically. All of them had regular milk previously and gave it up for some amount of time before trying out the "new milk."
- ctrlrsf 9y agoActually makes me feel worse. Tried it a few times but never end up finishing the half gallon.
- phoneyphone 9y agoMade 4x on their stock since I added them to my portfolio. Ironically doing better than most tech companies.
- latch 9y agoHow is that ironic?
- adamnemecek 9y agoDairy doesn’t seem super profitable.
- olliej 9y agoIt is, just (for a variety of reasons) not super profitable in the US. But there’s also scale, etc involved - Fonterra is cumulatively a huge dairy producer so has significant pricing power. Also as far as I can make out (moved from nz to the us many many years ago) farming in the US seems to be much less efficient - the mere existence of subsidies speaks to that. (Minor edit: I did a quick google to make sure I was still right about the above statements, and per Wikipedia - so 100% accurate - NZ is the only developed nation with no subsidies or price rules on agriculture, and Fonterra alone is responsible for 30% of global dairy exports)
- ekianjo 9y agoyes nz has made headlines by reforming their agricultural business many years ago and its been working great for them.
- rangibaby 9y ago> and its been working great for them. If money is all that you count. Switching from low-impact sheep farming (especially in the South Island) to dairy has basically ruined the environment. It's NZ's worst kept secret. I guess it will take something like Japan's "四大公害病" to make everyone wake up
- DavidSJ 9y agoBig Dairy is being upped by controversial new milk shakes.
- logicallee 9y agoyou're making a pretty low-quality joke but this headline really shouldn't have made it past the editors' desk in its current form because it's simply too confusing. (Because the term "milk shakes" makes it a garden path sentence.[1]) It's obviously "deliberate" but simply too hard to parse. Personally if I really insisted on the pun I would have put an extraneous comma that disambiguates: >Controversial New Milk, Shakes Up Big Dairy That still has the pun in it but at least would be readable. If people wonder why there's an unnecessary comma there they might realize the pun. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden_path_sentence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden_path_sentence - which includes "When read, the sentence seems ungrammatical, makes almost no sense, and often requires rereading so that its meaning may be fully understood after careful parsing." Certainly true for me.
- numbsafari 9y agoOr maybe it’s super clever SEO.
- petecox 9y ago'milkshake' is a compound noun, or at least Firefox's spell checker doesn't insist on hyphenation. To 'shake up' is perfectly idiomatic. Using 'up' as a standalone verb is less common and should be your cue.
- always_good 9y agoThat's irrelevant. Like "the old man the boat," the combination makes it hard to parse. The cue is that you get to "the boat" and realize you misinterpreted it. The point was not that it was impossible to understand.
- DavidSJ 9y agoIt was a low-quality joke, I agree (most of my jokes are). But I actually was trying to point out that it’s a garden path sentence.
- agitator 9y agoWhat's the tech behind this? Are these GMO dairy cows that do not produce the protein?
- davidpaulyoung 9y agoJersey, Guernsey cows produce milk that only has the A2 protein naturally. No screening required. http://www.honeymoonbrands.com/milk http://www.honeymoonbrands.com/milk and https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2014/03/a1-milk-a2-milk-america/ https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2014/03/a1-milk-a2-m...
- yorwba 9y agoYour first link doesn't mention A1/A2 at all, and the second says "The A1 protein is much less prevalent in milk from Jersey, Guernsey, and most Asian and African cow breeds, where, instead, the A2 protein predominates." which doesn't support your claim that they only produce A2.
- rhcom2 9y agoLooks like good old fashioned genetic screening. > A genetic test, developed by the a2 Milk Company, determines whether a cow produces A2 or A1 type protein in its milk. The test allows the company to certify milk producers as producing milk that does not metabolise to β-casomorphin 7. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A2_milk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A2_milk
- maxerickson 9y agoThey make a genetic test, the gene variation is from a natural mutation. They use the test to certify herds as producing the A2 milk.
- zem 9y agonon-wsj article about a2 milk: http://www.takepart.com/article/2016/03/30/a2-milk/ http://www.takepart.com/article/2016/03/30/a2-milk/
- almostApatriot1 9y agoLet me guess, it costs an extra $2-3 per gallon. Capitalism at its finest.
- gtvwill 9y agoNope. We produce regular, full jersey and a2 milk in the valley I live in. The local farmer owned manufacturer processes it and we pay maybe 20-40 cents per liter price difference for the different milks. Their product is sold both around the state and with a fair bit of business exporting to china. If you pay more your local milk industry just lacks competition. This is in Australia btw, my parents actually agist land to Mark the local young bloke who took up the reigns from many of the aging dairy farmers and leased their lands/consolidated their operations. He runs herds of dairy cattle and wagyu beef up and down the valley. Keeps the place looking good, doesn't over stock it either like the dogs fontera or some of those other kiwi dairy groups.
- arbie 9y agoA gallon is 3.8 liters, so GP's math is not far off.
- dang 9y agoMaybe so, but could you please not post unsubstantive comments here?
- almostApatriot1 9y agoso commenting on the price of a product being described in posted articled is unsubstantive? EDIT: It's clear that this thread has been brigaded by A2 proponents. You should unflag my comment.
- dang 9y agoYou didn't do that; you made a snarky guess about the price based on your opinion of a generic ideological category. That is unsubstantive. The thread isn't being "brigaded by A2 proponents", and insinuating that without evidence actually breaks another site guideline. Could you please (re-)read https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and follow the rules when posting here?
- ioquatix 9y agoI've been waiting for this to go mainstream for a long time. Unfortunately, my experience of mainstream milk is it's generally pretty crappy, mostly because of how it's produced. In New Zealand, the average "milk" is pretty disappointing. I've enjoyed A2 milk in the past but it's always been from boutique farms and most of the time they don't scale up (e.g. Ridge A2 Milk was a company which produced a great product but failed ~2010 I guess due to lack of traction). I'm not sure whether it's better milk because of the chemical structure, or because it's not reconstituted in a factory. I'm personally enjoying Naturalea milk, it's one of the few I can actually enjoy (http://goodmanfielder.com/portfolio/naturalea/ http://goodmanfielder.com/portfolio/naturalea/). I think that their entire production process yields a better product, something that Fonterra will unlikely be able to achieve because they scale their production while minimising cost. I'd rather pay a bit more and get milk I enjoy. Boutique A2 milk is some of the best I've had.
- erentz 9y ago> In New Zealand, the average "milk" is pretty disappointing. Genuinely surprised. One of the things I hate about living in the US is the terrible milk. I have a hard time drinking it. I don’t know what they do to it here but it comes with a gross, almost off aftertaste. (It also seems to have a surprisingly long shelf life.) New Zealand milk is amazing by comparison. It’s one of the things I love about going home. :-)
- abawany 9y agoIf available to you, I can recommend trying the following brands: * http://www.kalonasupernatural.com/ http://www.kalonasupernatural.com/ - non-homogenized, available at Natural Grocers * http://www.promisedlanddairy.com/our-story/ http://www.promisedlanddairy.com/our-story/ - seems to be from Jersey cows, if the color of the milk is any indication Another thing to watch out for if you are buying Horizon Organic is the UHT (ultra high temperature) processing it and some other brands use. It makes the milk shelf-stable (i.e. a sealed container needs no refrigeration) but adds a burnt taste that can be offputting.
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- aerophilic 9y agoThere is something significant and interesting here to consider around the foods we eat. How does history/social norms dictate food choice? With milk specifically therE was new research talking about how it is unusual that we can drink milk at all [0]. Most of the world has trouble with Milk, but interestingly Europeans had developed the ability to digest milk. Fast forward to today, milk primarily comes from “European” cows. However this “new” A2 milk comes from a different kind of cow and at least in theory doesn’t have the issues that typical (European) cows have. When my first son was born, and now with our second, they both had issues when my wife would eat dairy. At the time I researched this extensively, and went as far as tried to acquire this “Jersey Cow milk”. Unfortunately, at the time I just couldn’t get it where I live. If this is now a true “thing” I would be really excited to see if it would allow my wife to drink milk while producing milk herself. [0] http://abcnews.go.com/Health/WellnessNews/story?id=8450036 http://abcnews.go.com/Health/WellnessNews/story?id=8450036
- yorwba 9y agoI'm not sure whether you're trying to make a link between Europeans being able to digest milk and milk from Jersey cows somehow being more healthy than that of "European" cows, but I think that'd be nonsense. The channel islands are essentially part of Europe, and I doubt that inhabitants of Jersey somehow have a different level of milk tolerance that'd cause them to selectively breed cattle with the A2 variant of the protein. It's more likely that the variation is due to random chance amplified by breeding many cows starting with only a few ancestors.
- aerophilic 9y agoI am making no judgment on what is more "healthy". I am simply observing the fact that history/culture as a way of dictating what we eat, and making societal "norms". In this case, there are tons of milks that are "more digestible" by larger percentages of the population, but for whatever reason we continue to see "milk" as to mean this specific type of cow.
- philwelch 9y agoWe should probably clarify that it's cow milk that Europeans seem unusually well-equipped to digest. Mongols have drank horse milk for a very long time, ever since they were horse nomads.
- 8077628 9y agoWow, they're literally creating demand for a product that serves no purpose by "glutenizing" some harmless milk protein and selling "gluten-free" milk. Shameful. And the irony is that milk has a component, lactose, that is legitimately indigestible for large numbers of people. It was gluten before gluten was gluten, except not BS! But products already exist for that, so they're glutenizing milk because, let's face it, a sucker is born every second and it ain't cheap sending kids to college these days. Godspeed A2 milk, may the impoverishment of your customers reduce their propensity to procreate! Preemptive edit: the stealth marketing is so so thick in this thread! Yuck!
- chiefalchemist 9y agoAre you saying that gluten is healthy? That it has no negative impact on the human body? That's contrary to the current science, is it not?
- JumpCrisscross 9y ago> That's contrary to the current science, is it not? No, for people without Celiac’s, NCGS, gluten ataxia or a wheat allergy gluten-free eating is a fad diet [1]. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gluten-free_diet https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gluten-free_diet
- code_duck 9y agoIsn’t the idea that these people have NCGS?
- ubernostrum 9y agoThe more recent research -- by the people who originally studied NCGS -- is that the earlier studies may have been detecting sensitivity to other things, and that NCGS may not exist at all.
- sb8244 9y agoI have no opinion on the gluten-free diet trend. I believe that the popular opinion by many is that they do not have NCGS. TV personalities like Bourdain drive this heavily by discussing how gf used to not really be a thing in restaurants, but now is quite popular.
- perseusprime11 9y agoDoes anybody get constipated drinking regular milk? If yes, why not consider A2 milk?
- almostApatriot1 9y agois there any scientific evidence to support the claim that A2 milk doesn't cause constipation?
- sjwright 9y agoNice stealth marketing post.
- dang 9y agoThis breaks the site guidelines. Please read https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16928460 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16928460. The parent comment may be unsubstantive, but accusing other users without evidence is poisonous, and that's worse.
- sjwright 9y agoYou just accused the grandparent comment of being unsubstantive. That sounds like a politically correct insult to me. All I did was applaud them for doing something well.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- nbsd4life 9y agoside note: lactose intolerance means diarrhea, not constipation.
- Retra 9y agoIf milk is causing people problems, "drink something else" is a stunningly obvious suggestion.
- mst 9y ago@dang: Can somebody please tag WSJ articles as paywalled? I am getting deeply bored of seeing the domain name and clicking through anyway thinking this would be something I could actually read.
- dang 9y agoPlease see https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10178989 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10178989. As long as the paywalls have workarounds, they're ok here. They suck and are annoying to everyone, but HN would be worse without WSJ, NYT, the New Yorker, the Economist, etc., so this is a lesser-evil solution. Hopefully someone will eventually fix publishing on the web, and then we won't have either the paywall problem or the paywall complaint problem. The situation is made less annoying by users posting workarounds in the threads, which they usually do, and have done in this one.
- lbenes 9y agoAnd for those of us who are not frequent consumers of their content, we don't even need a work-around. The paywall only kicks in after a quota has been hit.
- mst 9y agoI'm apparently for whatever reason in the category of "gets insta-paywalled, no quota, incognito mode doesn't help" but the comments elsethread making clear that many others aren't suggests to me that I was overestimating the actual annoyance level caused across the userbase, so the current policy now makes much more sense to me. Thanks for the explanation.
- dang 9y agoIncognito mode often doesn't help for me either, but if you look for workarounds posted in the threads, you'll usually find one. It's also ok to ask for one.
- 9y ago
- neonate 9y agoThe article can be read at http://archive.is/o239C http://archive.is/o239C.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- psychometry 9y agoI don't understand why we can't blacklist domains on HN.
- briandear 9y agoWhy would we blacklist one of the most important American newspapers?
- Mizza 9y agoAll of the articles are paywalled.
- 13of40 9y agoI should be able to blacklist it from showing up when I look at hacker news, either by the grace of the ycombinator site or via a custom client. Does this exist?
- kbenson 9y agoThere are browser extensions which support that, as well as other features ("cleaner" UI, thread collapsing before it was in core, inline reply, etc). Explore a few, you might find something you like.
- dragonwriter 9y agoNo, because web discussion boards are still behind where NNTP news readers were 20 years ago. EDIT: Or, 30 years, for that matter.
- King-Aaron 9y agoJust as an aside note, in Australia this "new" A2 milk has been around for at least the last five years: http://www.farmweekly.com.au/news/agriculture/cattle/dairy/brownes-signs-deal-with-a2-corporation/2671862.aspx http://www.farmweekly.com.au/news/agriculture/cattle/dairy/b...
- petecox 9y agoPaywalled but some background for readers outside Australia: The supermarket duopoly Coles/Woolworths have had a pricing war by selling substandard 'milk' at a loss to encourage customers through their stores. The result has been many farmers and smaller dairies struggling financially, e.g the Murray Goulburn cooperative forced to sell its operations to Canadian Saputo recently. FWIW, I normally buy Jonesy's and the local deli has recently started selling St David's - processed in suburban Melbourne. A2 is thus one smaller brand seeking market differentiation through improved product - it all tastes just like milk to me but I then don't have the protein intolerance.
- sologoub 9y agoUS run-of-the-mill milk isn’t even what most people would think it is. Typical “non-industrial” way of getting “milk” is to milk a cow into some bucket/pan to hold the liquid. It will start separating and cream will float to the top. It gets skimmed and used for other products. What’s below is normal milk. In US (no clue where else), the milk is separated to get ALL fats out first. The the right amounts of fats are recombined with the liquid left over, often fortified with some vitamins and sold as “milk”. This is where you get the exact, perfectly non-separating, homogeneous product, with predictable fat contents. EDIT: there is also mechanical homogenization process as noted in comment below that does not use chemicals, but instead mechanically breaks down clumps of fats to make them more dissolvable. Problem is, once you separate the fats and then mix them back in, they don’t exactly want to stay mixed. For this you use stabilizers and other chemicals. EU apparently is pretty strict on what these “stabilizers” can be, by specific dairy product. US appears to be in an arms race with itself to make these more intricate. These also can be allergens. Don’t know how wide-spread this is, but I know over a dozen people that are “lactose-intolerant” in US, but can consume dairy quite safely in EU. A2 could be hitting on something similar, but for some people even non-homogenized milk from the Holsteins (supposedly containing the evil A1) could be the answer.
- sitharus 9y agoI can't comment on what the US allows, but the normal process of standardising and homogenising doesn't involve any additives. The fats and a liquid known as permeate are separated from the milk via centrifuges and filters. Then the parts are tested and recombined to produce a given level of fat, protein and lactose. After this the milk is homogenised by forcing through a screen which breaks up the fats and then pasteurised. There's no need for additives in this process as milk is naturally an emulsion. One reason for homogenisation is the pasteurisation process causes the fats to clump together and rise. This is exploited when making clotted cream. Personally I buy non-homogenised milk as I prefer the taste, but that's just me,
- sologoub 9y agoGood call, I’ll edit to clarify that. In milk you still get natural separation: https://www.foodbusinessnews.net/articles/10654-stabilizer-options-for-dairy-formulations https://www.foodbusinessnews.net/articles/10654-stabilizer-o... It’s far more pronounced in milk products mixed with something else - chocolate milk, ice cream, etc.
- mrmondo 9y ago"There is no current scientific evidence that A2 milk has nutrition and health benefits beyond regular milk" - Greg Miller, chief science officer at the National Dairy Council in the U.S.
- white-flame 9y agoOf course, things like "easier to digest" are neither a nutritive nor health benefit, so technically both that statement and some of the pro-A2 claims could simultaneously be true.
- lostlogin 9y agoIt’s not like he has a vested interest or anything. It doesn’t take much google time to get a more informed answer. The numbers in the studies aren’t large but it’s presumably hard to get ethics for feeding people with a severe stroke intolerance something that is closely related to the allergen. Starting small would seem logical.
- dbasedweeb 9y agoNutrition research is famously bad, worse than social science research. I would want to see a lot of replication before I took it with even a grain of delicious salt. The history of such research is a disappointing one after all. Humans are incredibly diverse, and it’s hard to do good research with controls on us when it comes to diet, but that still means weak prelim studies are often not worth the time of day.
- brownbat 9y ago> Although the science behind so-called A2 milk remains disputed, the entry of big companies into the market shows how changing consumer preferences create new opportunities that dairy giants can’t afford to ignore—especially as profits have been eroded in recent years by everything from almond milk to dairy-free ice cream. Some days I want them to stop all AI research and get to work on an extension that removes all weasel words from articles.
- 8077628 9y agoYou should remove all the non-weasel words, since the weasel words are the only true ones in these cases.
- mattspitz 9y agoShaking up big dairy would make big butter, no?
- NetOpWibby 9y ago*yuge
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- jamiethompson 9y agoThis isn't Reddit! ;)
- DEFCON28 9y agoI don't want to see another good cheap source of protein be demonized, the way gluten (seitan) and peanuts have been. Most people can tolerate milk well.
- azinman2 9y agoI highly recommend those that have trouble with milk to try Oatly... especially their (now sold out) Barista Blend. It's the closest thing to milk that isn't. The mouthfeel of the barista blend is amazingly the same. Don't buy the Pacific brand, it's crap in comparison.
- Moru 9y agoOatlys packages are funny. Their packages say "It's Swedish!" but when you read the fine-print on some packages, it's produced in Germany. I always preferred oat-drink istead of milk so have been using that since 1997 somewhere. My daughter had milk protein allergy when she was small and still loves Oatly and don't want milk at all. Luckily there are many other ways to get enough calcium if you just get away from the dairy industry propaganda...
- SeriousM 9y agoMilk is produced by forcing cows into pregnancy and then taking their babies away (on the first 72h). No matter if the milk is A1 or A2, it's made of cruelty by exploiting mothers and orphan children. Enjoy your next breakfast on mothers day.
- NetOpWibby 9y agoCruelty makes my Cinnamon Chex delicious.
- sgtmas2006 9y agoI will, it's still pleasant.
- marricks 9y agoAll it takes is picking up a different product in the dairy aisle to stop it from happening, why not choose compassion? Pleasantness doesn’t make up for what the calf loses or their mother had to go through.
- marricks 9y agoRevealing when you get downvotes but no replies to a comment written with nothing but kidness and good intentions. People really don’t want to think about the morality of their choices.
- jessaustin 9y agoHaha I got downvoted for a harmless joke. This thread is a dumpster fire.
- NetOpWibby 9y agoSame!
- hcbdb 9y ago
- nowarninglabel 9y agoFor those considering cow milk alternatives, I've been drinking pea 'milk' from Ripple foods and it is pretty great. I also really enjoy Califia Farms' Coconut Almond Milk. And for ice cream, Coconut Bliss I find to be even better than the real stuff. Your mileage may vary of course.
- neeleshs 9y agoI've found that milk alternatives have more than 20 ingredients in them. I don't understand what half of them are, and I don't know what long term effects such milks have. I'd love to switch to an alternative, but haven't found one without several additives in them.
- ficklepickle 9y agoMany nut and seed "milks" are an easy DIY. Just soak the, for example, almonds overnight then put them through a sturdy cold press juicer. Soy milk is more work, as it must be heated. It should be consumed with in a couple days, since there are no preservatives.
- jamiethompson 9y agoWe exclusively use Koko coconut milk in my family.
- theBobBob 9y agoI think that some EU court ruled that only actual milk can be called milk so no more Soy Milk, Almond Milk etc. Don't think that it is enforced anywhere yet.