4 ms·

These Electric Scooters in San Francisco have become a total nuisance. I've seen quite a few riders ride them on the sidewalks and 1 person even ran into a dud

These Electric Scooters in San Francisco have become a total nuisance. I've seen quite a few riders ride them on the sidewalks and 1 person even ran into a dude on a wheelchair who was trying to get onto the sidewalk after crossing the road on his wheelchair. The last safe place for Pedestrians and disabled persons -- the Sidewalk -- is under attack. The startups that have created this nuisance also park these scooters on the sidewalk, and it routinely blocks disabled people on wheelchairs from travelling safely on the sidewalk.

str33t_punk 8y ago
The sidewalk in San Francisco is already not a safe place. Everyone is looking down at their phones. If they aren't, it seems like a large amount of SF residents don't know how to walk on sidewalks appropriately (stick to one side of the road when someone is coming the other way, don't walk 6 abreast, etc.). I have seen so many people bump into each other and get into accidents simply walking. I wouldn't mind scooters on the sidewalk because then people will actually be forced to be aware, instead of walking around like mindless zombies staring at their phone and bumping into poles
- Blaine0002 8y ago
  I can't agree with you more. No one is aware of anyone around them on the sidewalks of San Francisco. I've seen people pacing back and forth on the phone on the corner of a busy foot intersection not caring that they are a nuicense. Most others are buried in their phone and don't notice you until they see your feet. God forbid it's raining and everyone's walking around with beach umbrellas that take up the entire sidewalk and don't give a shit who's eyes they poke out. huff
- coatmatter 8y ago
  https://thebaffler.com/latest/whos-afraid-petextrian-fraade https://thebaffler.com/latest/whos-afraid-petextrian-fraade "Petextrians" bumping into each other isn't anywhere near as dangerous as motorists with easy access to heavy vehicles driving near sidewalks.
- maherbeg 8y ago
  The sidewalk should be at least another car's width larger. That would help a tad bit with the issue, though the general societal problem of caring for your neighbor wouldn't be solved.
klochner 8y ago
i love them. They could easily take half the cars off the road and transform downtown. They're more convenient and a fraction of the cost of an uber, and they're fun to ride. People should not be riding them on the sidewalks, i'm expecting that to change quickly.
- nshelly 8y ago
  I'm a fan too. I think we'd see fewer people take Uber/Lyft's for short drives (less than 2 miles), but commute traffic will stay the same due to "induced demand." Any reduction in the number of cars on the road will be met by more people willing to do a "super commute" from outside the city. Right now the traffic into cities is dependent on the jobs (and their pay) available downtown, and people's willingness to commute from afar. If the number of jobs increase, or highway capacity increases (along with added housing in the suburbs), more people will take to the roads and the roads will still be clogged. Only if a lot of mass transit is added to distant suburbs and no growth in suburban housing would the amount of traffic decrease. Anyways, vehicular traffic could still be reduced during non-peak hours which is a great thing.
  - maherbeg 8y ago
    This could be fixed if SF voted to build more bike lanes to replace existing regular lanes. Removing a small number of regular lanes would nip the induced demand issue fairly quickly.
- therein 8y ago
  > a fraction of the cost of an uber They are indeed fun to ride but with the Uber's subsidized price, Uber still ends up being cheaper for a commute within the city. Especially with pool.
chrischen 8y ago
Scooters don't kill people. People kill people.
mattthebaker 8y ago
Police just need to start issuing tickets. Seems like a solid and easy revenue stream. Both riding on the sidewalk and riding without a helmet is illegal. Haven't seen any rider wearing one. CA Law: "An operator of a motorized scooter must be at least 16 years old, possess a valid drivers license or instruction permit, and wear a helmet. A motorized scooter may be operated on a bicycle path, trail or bikeway, but not on a sidewalk. On the roadway, it must be operated in the bicycle lane, if there is one. On roads without bicycle lanes, motorized scooters may operate where the speed limit is 25 mph or less, and shall be ridden as close to the right hand curb as possible, except to pass or turn left."
- theptip 8y ago
  This is 100% the right answer. If someone rents a car and then parks it on the sidewalk, the renter (not the rental company) gets the ticket. Why should scooters be different? If scooters start getting tickets for being parked in stupid places, then those tickets will get passed on to the riders, and they will stop it. If riders get tickets for riding on the sidewalk, they will stop it. Etc. The existing laws are sufficient to cover this situation, they just need to be enforced.
  - randyrand 8y ago
    You should give them a shot.
- zaroth 8y ago
  What do you do when you get to a 35mph zone with no bike lane?
  - seanp2k2 8y ago
    For bicycles in California, this is the law: http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=VEH&sectionNum=21202 http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.... CODE TEXT VEHICLE CODE - VEH DIVISION 11. RULES OF THE ROAD [21000 - 23336] ( Division 11 enacted by Stats. 1959, Ch. 3. ) CHAPTER 1. Obedience to and Effect of Traffic Laws [21000 - 21296] ( Chapter 1 enacted by Stats. 1959, Ch. 3. ) ARTICLE 4. Operation of Bicycles [21200 - 21213] ( Article 4 added by Stats. 1963, Ch. 479. ) 21202. (a) Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway at a speed less than the normal speed of traffic moving in the same direction at that time shall ride as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway except under any of the following situations: (1) When overtaking and passing another bicycle or vehicle proceeding in the same direction. (2) When preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway. (3) When reasonably necessary to avoid conditions (including, but not limited to, fixed or moving objects, vehicles, bicycles, pedestrians, animals, surface hazards, or substandard width lanes) that make it unsafe to continue along the right-hand curb or edge, subject to the provisions of Section 21656. For purposes of this section, a “substandard width lane” is a lane that is too narrow for a bicycle and a vehicle to travel safely side by side within the lane. (4) When approaching a place where a right turn is authorized. (b) Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway of a highway, which highway carries traffic in one direction only and has two or more marked traffic lanes, may ride as near the left-hand curb or edge of that roadway as practicable. (Amended by Stats. 1996, Ch. 674, Sec. 4. Effective January 1, 1997.) For motorized scooters, the only thing I could find is in the vehicle code: https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/vr/scooters https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/vr/scooters A motorized scooter is a two-wheeled device that has handlebars, a floorboard designed to be stood upon when riding, and is powered by a motor. The Vehicle Code (VC) does not require registration, license plates to be displayed or the scooter to be insured. Local authorities can regulate the registration for these scooters pursuant to VC §21225. Even though insurance is not required, owners of these scooters should contact their insurance company to determine if coverage is available. An operator of a motorized scooter must be at least 16 years old, possess a valid drivers license or instruction permit, and wear a helmet. A motorized scooter may be operated on a bicycle path, trail or bikeway, but not on a sidewalk. On the roadway, it must be operated in the bicycle lane, if there is one. On roads without bicycle lanes, motorized scooters may operate where the speed limit is 25 mph or less, and shall be ridden as close to the right hand curb as possible, except to pass or turn left. VC § 21226 (D) prohibits alteration of motorized scooters.

str33t_punk 8y ago

The sidewalk in San Francisco is already not a safe place. Everyone is looking down at their phones. If they aren't, it seems like a large amount of SF residents don't know how to walk on sidewalks appropriately (stick to one side of the road when someone is coming the other way, don't walk 6 abreast, etc.). I have seen so many people bump into each other and get into accidents simply walking. I wouldn't mind scooters on the sidewalk because then people will actually be forced to be aware, instead of walking around like mindless zombies staring at their phone and bumping into poles

Blaine0002 8y ago
I can't agree with you more. No one is aware of anyone around them on the sidewalks of San Francisco. I've seen people pacing back and forth on the phone on the corner of a busy foot intersection not caring that they are a nuicense. Most others are buried in their phone and don't notice you until they see your feet. God forbid it's raining and everyone's walking around with beach umbrellas that take up the entire sidewalk and don't give a shit who's eyes they poke out. huff
coatmatter 8y ago
https://thebaffler.com/latest/whos-afraid-petextrian-fraade https://thebaffler.com/latest/whos-afraid-petextrian-fraade "Petextrians" bumping into each other isn't anywhere near as dangerous as motorists with easy access to heavy vehicles driving near sidewalks.
maherbeg 8y ago
The sidewalk should be at least another car's width larger. That would help a tad bit with the issue, though the general societal problem of caring for your neighbor wouldn't be solved.

klochner 8y ago

i love them. They could easily take half the cars off the road and transform downtown. They're more convenient and a fraction of the cost of an uber, and they're fun to ride. People should not be riding them on the sidewalks, i'm expecting that to change quickly.

nshelly 8y ago
I'm a fan too. I think we'd see fewer people take Uber/Lyft's for short drives (less than 2 miles), but commute traffic will stay the same due to "induced demand." Any reduction in the number of cars on the road will be met by more people willing to do a "super commute" from outside the city. Right now the traffic into cities is dependent on the jobs (and their pay) available downtown, and people's willingness to commute from afar. If the number of jobs increase, or highway capacity increases (along with added housing in the suburbs), more people will take to the roads and the roads will still be clogged. Only if a lot of mass transit is added to distant suburbs and no growth in suburban housing would the amount of traffic decrease. Anyways, vehicular traffic could still be reduced during non-peak hours which is a great thing.
- maherbeg 8y ago
  This could be fixed if SF voted to build more bike lanes to replace existing regular lanes. Removing a small number of regular lanes would nip the induced demand issue fairly quickly.
therein 8y ago
> a fraction of the cost of an uber They are indeed fun to ride but with the Uber's subsidized price, Uber still ends up being cheaper for a commute within the city. Especially with pool.

chrischen 8y ago

Scooters don't kill people. People kill people.

mattthebaker 8y ago

Police just need to start issuing tickets. Seems like a solid and easy revenue stream. Both riding on the sidewalk and riding without a helmet is illegal. Haven't seen any rider wearing one. CA Law: "An operator of a motorized scooter must be at least 16 years old, possess a valid drivers license or instruction permit, and wear a helmet. A motorized scooter may be operated on a bicycle path, trail or bikeway, but not on a sidewalk. On the roadway, it must be operated in the bicycle lane, if there is one. On roads without bicycle lanes, motorized scooters may operate where the speed limit is 25 mph or less, and shall be ridden as close to the right hand curb as possible, except to pass or turn left."

theptip 8y ago
This is 100% the right answer. If someone rents a car and then parks it on the sidewalk, the renter (not the rental company) gets the ticket. Why should scooters be different? If scooters start getting tickets for being parked in stupid places, then those tickets will get passed on to the riders, and they will stop it. If riders get tickets for riding on the sidewalk, they will stop it. Etc. The existing laws are sufficient to cover this situation, they just need to be enforced.
- randyrand 8y ago
  You should give them a shot.
zaroth 8y ago
What do you do when you get to a 35mph zone with no bike lane?
- seanp2k2 8y ago
  For bicycles in California, this is the law: http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=VEH&sectionNum=21202 http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.... CODE TEXT VEHICLE CODE - VEH DIVISION 11. RULES OF THE ROAD [21000 - 23336] ( Division 11 enacted by Stats. 1959, Ch. 3. ) CHAPTER 1. Obedience to and Effect of Traffic Laws [21000 - 21296] ( Chapter 1 enacted by Stats. 1959, Ch. 3. ) ARTICLE 4. Operation of Bicycles [21200 - 21213] ( Article 4 added by Stats. 1963, Ch. 479. ) 21202. (a) Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway at a speed less than the normal speed of traffic moving in the same direction at that time shall ride as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway except under any of the following situations: (1) When overtaking and passing another bicycle or vehicle proceeding in the same direction. (2) When preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway. (3) When reasonably necessary to avoid conditions (including, but not limited to, fixed or moving objects, vehicles, bicycles, pedestrians, animals, surface hazards, or substandard width lanes) that make it unsafe to continue along the right-hand curb or edge, subject to the provisions of Section 21656. For purposes of this section, a “substandard width lane” is a lane that is too narrow for a bicycle and a vehicle to travel safely side by side within the lane. (4) When approaching a place where a right turn is authorized. (b) Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway of a highway, which highway carries traffic in one direction only and has two or more marked traffic lanes, may ride as near the left-hand curb or edge of that roadway as practicable. (Amended by Stats. 1996, Ch. 674, Sec. 4. Effective January 1, 1997.) For motorized scooters, the only thing I could find is in the vehicle code: https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/vr/scooters https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/vr/scooters A motorized scooter is a two-wheeled device that has handlebars, a floorboard designed to be stood upon when riding, and is powered by a motor. The Vehicle Code (VC) does not require registration, license plates to be displayed or the scooter to be insured. Local authorities can regulate the registration for these scooters pursuant to VC §21225. Even though insurance is not required, owners of these scooters should contact their insurance company to determine if coverage is available. An operator of a motorized scooter must be at least 16 years old, possess a valid drivers license or instruction permit, and wear a helmet. A motorized scooter may be operated on a bicycle path, trail or bikeway, but not on a sidewalk. On the roadway, it must be operated in the bicycle lane, if there is one. On roads without bicycle lanes, motorized scooters may operate where the speed limit is 25 mph or less, and shall be ridden as close to the right hand curb as possible, except to pass or turn left. VC § 21226 (D) prohibits alteration of motorized scooters.