5 ms·

> People seem to think "one a felon, always a felon" I'm not sure that's what is really going on, regardless of what people say. People have no problem doing b

> People seem to think "one a felon, always a felon" I'm not sure that's what is really going on, regardless of what people say. People have no problem doing business with known frauds, criminals and bad actors, from the CEO who cheated their co-founder to Wall Street banks to many, many more. Will nobody do business with Travis Kalanick again? The banks who sold the shady mortgage-backed securities that caused the Great Recession? There was a story the other day about prominent scientists who committed massive fraud and hardly suffered dents in their careers. Pete Carroll committed many violations of NCAA rules and ethics when coaching U. of Southern Cal football; he became a professional football coach and nobody talks about not trusting him; it seems to have had no impact on his reputation. Another example is the Catholic Church's systematic sexual abuse of children on a global scale; did everyone stop going to Catholic churches? Stop doing all business with them? I could go on forever. It's hard to put my finger on the formula, but it seems to have something to do with being on the inside, 'one of ours' or the old boy network, compared with being an outsider. (To avoid any doubt, I think the exclusion of former felons from employment is wrong. Once they've served their time, it's done. Employers shouldn't be allowed to ask with only a few exceptions (e.g., former bank robbers shouldn't be bank security guards).)

joshmn 9y ago
That's a bit of a false equivalency. That's like saying why not drop out of college? Bill Gates did and he turned out fine. Those positions are not a dime-a-dozen. For the regular working person, being a felon is a very heavy weight to carry and it immediately discredits or otherwise disqualifies many people, where they rarely have a chance to even have their story heard.
DoreenMichele 9y ago
I have been sitting here wondering if the guy who made this website is a person of color that he couldn't get his felony downgraded and keeps being rejected after people learn of his crime of felony flashing -- which is only a felony because it's a second offense. The first offense is only a misdemeanor. (Watch that second step. It's a doozey.) I get that there's a slippery slope element here and no one wants to say "Sure, flash people all you like! It's only a misdemeanor forever, no matter how many times you do it." And I get that it's additionally problematic that he flashed a minor. But 17 year olds are kind of a gray zone. I just feel like some element of the story is missing here and I find myself wondering if that element is racism, in part because I know the criminal justice system in the US basically practices systemic racism of the worst kind. I wouldn't hire him to work at a high school, but come on. Why is he still unemployed after two years over what must be one of the most minor offenses you can commit to be charged with a felony?
- _sdegutis 9y ago
  Well first of all I think regardless of whether it's a minor offense relative to other offenses, my crimes did a lot of real and possibly long-lasting damage to some teenage girls and their families. And I think the fact that when you google my name a bunch of newspaper articles come up with reiterate this and force it on the front of people's mind, that doesn't do me any favors. I've tried contacting those newspapers to ask for the articles to be taken down so I can have a better chance at getting a job, but I can't find a phone number where I can talk to anyone at those newspaper companies who even has the ability to take such a request.
  - DoreenMichele 9y ago
    I appreciate that you have come to understand that any sex crime, no matter how minor, can do (and typically does) terrible psychological harm to the victim and anyone close to them. And you absolutely need to not ever do it again. But I'm a 52 year old woman who was molested and raped as a child and who spent years in therapy over that. I have read enormous amounts about what I would term human sexual morality and spent enormous amounts of time contemplating it. I also blog about such topics at times. As a woman, I have been on the receiving end of male sexual interest essentially my entire life. I have met damn few men who really get it right in all the particulars, at all times. Men who are otherwise perfectly well behaved can turn into assholes when they have had a couple of drinks. Men who otherwise get it right can err on the side of avoiding a woman in order to hide their attraction to her (or simply worried about rumor and innuendo, even if they aren't personally attracted) in situations where this can close doors for her career-wise. I recently got off the street after 5.7 years of sleeping in a tent and I am still struggling to make ends meet. That last one above really sticks in my craw at this point. When the rest of the entire world can figure out how to get over its sexism enough to stop saying "Meh, not my problem that this woman (or any woman) can't eat. God forbid that anyone should think I like her in that way. Better to just keep walking. Not my problem." then I will maybe consider frying you for flashing someone. But I assure you, the world isn't there yet. It has a lot of growing up to do in that regard.
    - deleted 9y ago
Rebelgecko 9y ago
What did Pete Carroll do at USC that was unethical?
- cepth 9y ago
  http://www.latimes.com/sports/usc/la-sp-usc-ncaa-carroll-20140608-story.html http://www.latimes.com/sports/usc/la-sp-usc-ncaa-carroll-201... And a more opinionated take here: https://www.bruinsnation.com/2010/7/14/1568922/pete-carroll-caught-lying-about https://www.bruinsnation.com/2010/7/14/1568922/pete-carroll-... This is not to mention the various times Carroll’s Seahawks have forfeited draft picks for violating off season practice rules.
  - Rebelgecko 9y ago
    The only bad thing there was having a consultant break a rule (they're allowed to watch the team's games, they're allowed to make suggestions to the coaching staff, but they're not allowed to make suggestions to the coaching staff based on what they saw during the games). That's one of those minor secondary violations on par with how it was ok to give a student-athlete a bagel, but a bagel with cream cheese is an impermissible benefit. The most important differentiator for coach vs consultant is whether or not they interact with players, which didn't happen. There's pretty minimal evidence that Pete Carroll knew about Reggie Bush's improper benefits. The NCAA just admitted last week that their main piece of evidence against the coaching staff (a one minute phone call) was "factually incorrect". Their report misrepresented when the call occurred and who made the call. The connection to the coaching staff was already tenuous at best, and I think the ongoing Todd McNair trial is only going to reinforce that.

joshmn 9y ago

That's a bit of a false equivalency. That's like saying why not drop out of college? Bill Gates did and he turned out fine. Those positions are not a dime-a-dozen. For the regular working person, being a felon is a very heavy weight to carry and it immediately discredits or otherwise disqualifies many people, where they rarely have a chance to even have their story heard.

DoreenMichele 9y ago

I have been sitting here wondering if the guy who made this website is a person of color that he couldn't get his felony downgraded and keeps being rejected after people learn of his crime of felony flashing -- which is only a felony because it's a second offense. The first offense is only a misdemeanor. (Watch that second step. It's a doozey.) I get that there's a slippery slope element here and no one wants to say "Sure, flash people all you like! It's only a misdemeanor forever, no matter how many times you do it." And I get that it's additionally problematic that he flashed a minor. But 17 year olds are kind of a gray zone. I just feel like some element of the story is missing here and I find myself wondering if that element is racism, in part because I know the criminal justice system in the US basically practices systemic racism of the worst kind. I wouldn't hire him to work at a high school, but come on. Why is he still unemployed after two years over what must be one of the most minor offenses you can commit to be charged with a felony?

_sdegutis 9y ago
Well first of all I think regardless of whether it's a minor offense relative to other offenses, my crimes did a lot of real and possibly long-lasting damage to some teenage girls and their families. And I think the fact that when you google my name a bunch of newspaper articles come up with reiterate this and force it on the front of people's mind, that doesn't do me any favors. I've tried contacting those newspapers to ask for the articles to be taken down so I can have a better chance at getting a job, but I can't find a phone number where I can talk to anyone at those newspaper companies who even has the ability to take such a request.
- DoreenMichele 9y ago
  I appreciate that you have come to understand that any sex crime, no matter how minor, can do (and typically does) terrible psychological harm to the victim and anyone close to them. And you absolutely need to not ever do it again. But I'm a 52 year old woman who was molested and raped as a child and who spent years in therapy over that. I have read enormous amounts about what I would term human sexual morality and spent enormous amounts of time contemplating it. I also blog about such topics at times. As a woman, I have been on the receiving end of male sexual interest essentially my entire life. I have met damn few men who really get it right in all the particulars, at all times. Men who are otherwise perfectly well behaved can turn into assholes when they have had a couple of drinks. Men who otherwise get it right can err on the side of avoiding a woman in order to hide their attraction to her (or simply worried about rumor and innuendo, even if they aren't personally attracted) in situations where this can close doors for her career-wise. I recently got off the street after 5.7 years of sleeping in a tent and I am still struggling to make ends meet. That last one above really sticks in my craw at this point. When the rest of the entire world can figure out how to get over its sexism enough to stop saying "Meh, not my problem that this woman (or any woman) can't eat. God forbid that anyone should think I like her in that way. Better to just keep walking. Not my problem." then I will maybe consider frying you for flashing someone. But I assure you, the world isn't there yet. It has a lot of growing up to do in that regard.
  - deleted 9y ago

Rebelgecko 9y ago

What did Pete Carroll do at USC that was unethical?

cepth 9y ago
http://www.latimes.com/sports/usc/la-sp-usc-ncaa-carroll-20140608-story.html http://www.latimes.com/sports/usc/la-sp-usc-ncaa-carroll-201... And a more opinionated take here: https://www.bruinsnation.com/2010/7/14/1568922/pete-carroll-caught-lying-about https://www.bruinsnation.com/2010/7/14/1568922/pete-carroll-... This is not to mention the various times Carroll’s Seahawks have forfeited draft picks for violating off season practice rules.
- Rebelgecko 9y ago
  The only bad thing there was having a consultant break a rule (they're allowed to watch the team's games, they're allowed to make suggestions to the coaching staff, but they're not allowed to make suggestions to the coaching staff based on what they saw during the games). That's one of those minor secondary violations on par with how it was ok to give a student-athlete a bagel, but a bagel with cream cheese is an impermissible benefit. The most important differentiator for coach vs consultant is whether or not they interact with players, which didn't happen. There's pretty minimal evidence that Pete Carroll knew about Reggie Bush's improper benefits. The NCAA just admitted last week that their main piece of evidence against the coaching staff (a one minute phone call) was "factually incorrect". Their report misrepresented when the call occurred and who made the call. The connection to the coaching staff was already tenuous at best, and I think the ongoing Todd McNair trial is only going to reinforce that.