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Yes. When attempting to pattern match signs it's easier to match similar letters than symbols that appaear totally abstract. It probably has something to do wit

Yes. When attempting to pattern match signs it's easier to match similar letters than symbols that appaear totally abstract. It probably has something to do with short term memory being able to hold 5-9 things. Also many languages use enough similar words (i.e. cognates) that you can use context to guess at the meaning.

emodendroket 9y ago
https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ng%C3%B4_%C4%90%C3%ACnh_Di%E1%BB%87m https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ng%C3%B4_%C4%90%C3%ACnh_Di%E1%... Can you make out anything in this article other than personal names?
- singingboyo 9y ago
  I think that for languages that didn't get adapted into english, the 'similar word' effect is essentially missing - it really only works for romance languages and maybe the odd germanic word. However, if I had a dictionary or something, that article would be much easier to translate than, say, Japanese (or Mandarin, or really any language where writing involves a large number of symbols). I'm not sure that that applies very well to cyrillic vs latin though. IIRC cyrillic is still under ~50 unique characters, so a dictionary would essentially need an index to tell you what the alphabetic ordering is, and then I think you'd be set (as well as you can be with just a dictionary, at least).
  - emodendroket 9y ago
    That's my point here -- Latin script doesn't offer that many benefits over Cyrillic script, which makes it pretty questionable, in my mind, whether the upheaval is worth it.
  - btilly 9y ago
    I studied Russian enough to know that you are wrong. Technical words, recent inventions, sports and brand names tend to be straightforward transliterations. Plus more are borrowed. Take Russian words like диносавр, Макдоналдс, киоск, and гамбургер. You probably have no idea what they mean, but the direct transliterations are dinosavr, Makdonalds, kiosk, and gamburger are a little easier to guess? Not every word by any means. For example refrigerator is холодильник (roughly xolodinьik though the initial sound is not in English). Which literally translates as "cold making thing". But enough to be helpful more often than you'd guess.
    - Fins 9y ago
      To a point of pedantry, it's диноЗавр. Also, холодильник would be transliterated something like kholodeelnik. But you always have to be aware of "false friends". Russian магазин (magazin) does not mean what one might think it does.
      - tomsmeding 9y ago
        Knowing French, though, and thinking that "magazin" will probably sound more like "magasin" than "magasine", the meaning wasn't entirely unexpected.
        Fins 9y ago
        Yes. Russian did borrow quite a few words from French. Just goes to show that even between English and French, same alphabet or not, just because a word looks familiar it does not mean that one can guess the meaning correctly.
    - shard 9y ago
      I don't know the exact details for Russian, but it's not so easy in Korean, even though about a quarter of the words are of English origin. First the transliteration sounds could be quite off, as it could be based on the spelling rather than pronunciation (e.g. quinine is ki-ni-neh). Second, for short words you're not really sure whether it's native Korean words or not. Third, the meaning could be different than what you expect (e.g. cunning means cheating, like on an exam, and glamour means a voluptuous body). From this experience I would be weary of any words that sound similar to English in a foreign language.
- toomanybeersies 9y ago
  In my experience, when I was in Vietnam I was able to read and understand menus and road signs fairly easy, despite not speaking a word of Vietnamese. I don't think that would've been the same if they used a non-latin alphabet.
  - realusername 9y ago
    Yeah but there is a massive difference between Chinese characters and Cyrillic, Cyrillic can be learned in 1 or 2 hours maximum, it's not the same complexity at all.
    - ajuc 9y ago
      I'm Slavic native speaker, was in L'viv for a week, learnt Cyrylic in that time. No way you can learn it in 2 hours. And even if you do - you will be reading it letter by letter, while even foreign latin-based script you can read almost as fast as your own language.
      - realusername 9y ago
        I'm French and did managed to learn to read in 2 hours. I know a bit more of Russian now but 2 hours was enough to learn to read. Of course I was still reading very slowly syllable by syllable but it was enough to read. With Mandarin, 2 hours isn't enough just to list all the meta-categories of all the signs :p. That's what I meant by the big difference between the two. Switching from Chinese characters like Vietnam did isn't the same effect as switching from a Cyrillic alphabet which is much simpler.

emodendroket 9y ago

https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ng%C3%B4_%C4%90%C3%ACnh_Di%E1%BB%87m https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ng%C3%B4_%C4%90%C3%ACnh_Di%E1%... Can you make out anything in this article other than personal names?

singingboyo 9y ago
I think that for languages that didn't get adapted into english, the 'similar word' effect is essentially missing - it really only works for romance languages and maybe the odd germanic word. However, if I had a dictionary or something, that article would be much easier to translate than, say, Japanese (or Mandarin, or really any language where writing involves a large number of symbols). I'm not sure that that applies very well to cyrillic vs latin though. IIRC cyrillic is still under ~50 unique characters, so a dictionary would essentially need an index to tell you what the alphabetic ordering is, and then I think you'd be set (as well as you can be with just a dictionary, at least).
- emodendroket 9y ago
  That's my point here -- Latin script doesn't offer that many benefits over Cyrillic script, which makes it pretty questionable, in my mind, whether the upheaval is worth it.
- btilly 9y ago
  I studied Russian enough to know that you are wrong. Technical words, recent inventions, sports and brand names tend to be straightforward transliterations. Plus more are borrowed. Take Russian words like диносавр, Макдоналдс, киоск, and гамбургер. You probably have no idea what they mean, but the direct transliterations are dinosavr, Makdonalds, kiosk, and gamburger are a little easier to guess? Not every word by any means. For example refrigerator is холодильник (roughly xolodinьik though the initial sound is not in English). Which literally translates as "cold making thing". But enough to be helpful more often than you'd guess.
  - Fins 9y ago
    To a point of pedantry, it's диноЗавр. Also, холодильник would be transliterated something like kholodeelnik. But you always have to be aware of "false friends". Russian магазин (magazin) does not mean what one might think it does.
    - tomsmeding 9y ago
      Knowing French, though, and thinking that "magazin" will probably sound more like "magasin" than "magasine", the meaning wasn't entirely unexpected.
      - Fins 9y ago
        Yes. Russian did borrow quite a few words from French. Just goes to show that even between English and French, same alphabet or not, just because a word looks familiar it does not mean that one can guess the meaning correctly.
  - shard 9y ago
    I don't know the exact details for Russian, but it's not so easy in Korean, even though about a quarter of the words are of English origin. First the transliteration sounds could be quite off, as it could be based on the spelling rather than pronunciation (e.g. quinine is ki-ni-neh). Second, for short words you're not really sure whether it's native Korean words or not. Third, the meaning could be different than what you expect (e.g. cunning means cheating, like on an exam, and glamour means a voluptuous body). From this experience I would be weary of any words that sound similar to English in a foreign language.
toomanybeersies 9y ago
In my experience, when I was in Vietnam I was able to read and understand menus and road signs fairly easy, despite not speaking a word of Vietnamese. I don't think that would've been the same if they used a non-latin alphabet.
- realusername 9y ago
  Yeah but there is a massive difference between Chinese characters and Cyrillic, Cyrillic can be learned in 1 or 2 hours maximum, it's not the same complexity at all.
  - ajuc 9y ago
    I'm Slavic native speaker, was in L'viv for a week, learnt Cyrylic in that time. No way you can learn it in 2 hours. And even if you do - you will be reading it letter by letter, while even foreign latin-based script you can read almost as fast as your own language.
    - realusername 9y ago
      I'm French and did managed to learn to read in 2 hours. I know a bit more of Russian now but 2 hours was enough to learn to read. Of course I was still reading very slowly syllable by syllable but it was enough to read. With Mandarin, 2 hours isn't enough just to list all the meta-categories of all the signs :p. That's what I meant by the big difference between the two. Switching from Chinese characters like Vietnam did isn't the same effect as switching from a Cyrillic alphabet which is much simpler.