6 ms·

“You may shut the f– up”: Dashcam vindicates cops confronting corruption

49 points by okket 9y ago

olliej 9y ago
See police can be protected by body cams! That said there still seem to be a reasonable number of cases where body cams coincidentally don’t record events where they’re accused of misbehaving :-/
originalsimba 9y ago
The story is backwards, the cops acted unprofessionally and disrespectfully from the very start, which can only ever cause escalation of hostilities. Hiding your vitriol behind flowery words does not change the intention or the disrespect which is expressed to his subject. His victim is aware of his disrespect, and so are "you" so don't pretend you aren't. When you are a witness to verbal abuse, if the abuser disguises his abusive language using strategically chosen vocabulary, you are _obligated_ as a witness to recognize the abusive treatment. If you participate in the scene by defending the abuser, pretending that you can't see the disrespect in their choice of words, then you share in their guilt for contributing to the social rot of our culture. That's not a statement of judgement towards anyone, but rather a recognition of our basic social obligations.
- threatofrain 9y ago
  I think the officers are right in saying that the legal details aren't her affairs -- unless she wants to make them hers by asking the (adult) kids what happened.
  - rrauenza 9y ago
    I kind of feel he wouldn't tell her because of the way she approached him initially, and then had to stick to his guns, so to speak. He even kind of admits it later. That's not meant to be a criticism - just a description of what happened. I think his guard went up based on her initial approach.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
- FroshKiller 9y ago
  I'm probably one of the most anti-cop people on Hacker News, and buddy, you have it wrong. Even I can't find much objectionable about how these police officers handled the situation.
  - originalsimba 9y ago
    I could only stand to watch about a minute of the video, but the two things which stand out the most are the cop calling the lady "Miss" even after she corrected him, in an intentional display of disrespect toward her. The second big red flag is that he refused to answer her question. She asked why they were pulled over. He refused repeatedly to answer, and told her to ask the driver of the vehicle. Then he told her to check public records. These people are paid to _serve_ us, not to belittle us and make our lives hell. "SERVE" is not a mistake of vocabulary, it's an intentionally chosen word to describe the relationship which police are _required_ to maintain with the citizens of their jurisdictions. The behaviors the cop displays are literally "anti-social", in the clinical sense, and people who are "anti-social" cannot be trusted with positions of authority in our communities. Was the lady wrong to attempt to abuse her position? Sure. But the cops were wrong for the same things that cops are _ALWAYS_ wrong for. They're control freaks, they're selfish and self-centered, they diminish other people to empower themselves. The quoted obscenity in the headline is a response to the officer saying "You make take them now", is it any surprise this set her off? He's bossing her around like he's her father, but he's just some nobody making $25k/yr pretending to be something he is not, a hero. Here's the only thing that matters, the lady is an upset private citizen. Her behavior is understandable, considering the circumstances. The cop has no excuse for his behavior. Everything else is frankly window dressing.
    - jlg23 9y ago
      > But the cops were wrong for the same things that cops are _ALWAYS_ wrong for. They're control freaks, they're selfish and self-centered, they diminish other people to empower themselves. The quoted obscenity in the headline is a response to the officer saying "You make take them now", is it any surprise this set her off? Yes, there are idiots who, when given a uniform are "hard" to deal with... But in this situation (all over, she is there basically as a taxi driver) I can only say that I would have been much more blunt with her. You say they are there to "serve us" and I actually mean that: The "us" is better served if they don't engage in pointless discussions but do their actual job instead. > He's just some nobody making $25k/yr He might be making only 25k but he is also making a difference. Do you?
- jlg23 9y ago
  Where was the "disrespectful" behaviour?
  - originalsimba 9y ago
    answered above
- _tomasz 9y ago
  The officers handled themselves very professionally. This was a legal traffic stop, the driver was issued a citation for having expired registration. Any legal matter between the driver and the city of Tenafly is between the two parties and other than whatever legal requirements for disclosure are in place for reporting the traffic stop, the mother of the adult has no business involving herself.
  - rrauenza 9y ago
    He probably also knew if he told her the citation, she'd just argue it... it would prolong the argument longer.
j32fun 9y ago
For those who want to skip to the conclusion of this confrontation, the commissioner was asked to resign from the port authority after an internal investigation by the port authority regarding her behaviour. She was formerly the head of the Government and Ethics committee. Source: http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2018/04/who_is_caren_turner_and_how_did_she_become_the_sta.html http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2018/04/who_is_caren_turner...
JumpCrisscross 9y ago
"Q. Was Turner charged with any wrongdoing? A. No. While the video shows her haranguing police over the traffic stop, dropping the names of elected officials she knew, and her position as a Port Authority commissioner who oversees 4,000 police officers, the Tenafly police did not charge her with obstruction. But the chief of police made a call to the Port Authority's Inspector General, which led to an internal investigation and ultimately her resignation. Q. Is the Port Authority taking any further action? A. Apparently not. A spokesman said the Port Authority board was preparing to form a special committee to review the findings of the Inspector General investigation and take action at this week's board meeting, before Turner submitted her resignation to Gov. Phil Murphy. 'Commissioner Turner's resignation was appropriate given her outrageous conduct,' said the Port Authority spokesman. There has been no indication that anyone else might pursue misconduct charges against her for allegedly misusing her public office." http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2018/04/who_is_caren_turner_and_how_did_she_become_the_sta.html#incart_2box_nj-homepage-featured http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2018/04/who_is_caren_turner...
otp124 9y ago
I want to shake those officer's hands for not putting up with that attitude, and for being respectful while doing it.
rrauenza 9y ago
Her "status" didn't get her what she wanted, but I can't help but feel that conversation went on quite a bit longer than it should have -- because of her status.
ars 9y ago
The biggest problem with government is that only people who want to be in it are in it. And to want to be in it, especially unpaid positions like hers, people expect to get things out of it. Maybe we should think about appointing people to these types of low-profile positions, much like how we do Jury duty.

49 points by okket 9y ago

See police can be protected by body cams! That said there still seem to be a reasonable number of cases where body cams coincidentally don’t record events where they’re accused of misbehaving :-/

originalsimba 9y ago

The story is backwards, the cops acted unprofessionally and disrespectfully from the very start, which can only ever cause escalation of hostilities. Hiding your vitriol behind flowery words does not change the intention or the disrespect which is expressed to his subject. His victim is aware of his disrespect, and so are "you" so don't pretend you aren't. When you are a witness to verbal abuse, if the abuser disguises his abusive language using strategically chosen vocabulary, you are _obligated_ as a witness to recognize the abusive treatment. If you participate in the scene by defending the abuser, pretending that you can't see the disrespect in their choice of words, then you share in their guilt for contributing to the social rot of our culture. That's not a statement of judgement towards anyone, but rather a recognition of our basic social obligations.

threatofrain 9y ago
I think the officers are right in saying that the legal details aren't her affairs -- unless she wants to make them hers by asking the (adult) kids what happened.
- rrauenza 9y ago
  I kind of feel he wouldn't tell her because of the way she approached him initially, and then had to stick to his guns, so to speak. He even kind of admits it later. That's not meant to be a criticism - just a description of what happened. I think his guard went up based on her initial approach.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
FroshKiller 9y ago
I'm probably one of the most anti-cop people on Hacker News, and buddy, you have it wrong. Even I can't find much objectionable about how these police officers handled the situation.
- originalsimba 9y ago
  I could only stand to watch about a minute of the video, but the two things which stand out the most are the cop calling the lady "Miss" even after she corrected him, in an intentional display of disrespect toward her. The second big red flag is that he refused to answer her question. She asked why they were pulled over. He refused repeatedly to answer, and told her to ask the driver of the vehicle. Then he told her to check public records. These people are paid to _serve_ us, not to belittle us and make our lives hell. "SERVE" is not a mistake of vocabulary, it's an intentionally chosen word to describe the relationship which police are _required_ to maintain with the citizens of their jurisdictions. The behaviors the cop displays are literally "anti-social", in the clinical sense, and people who are "anti-social" cannot be trusted with positions of authority in our communities. Was the lady wrong to attempt to abuse her position? Sure. But the cops were wrong for the same things that cops are _ALWAYS_ wrong for. They're control freaks, they're selfish and self-centered, they diminish other people to empower themselves. The quoted obscenity in the headline is a response to the officer saying "You make take them now", is it any surprise this set her off? He's bossing her around like he's her father, but he's just some nobody making $25k/yr pretending to be something he is not, a hero. Here's the only thing that matters, the lady is an upset private citizen. Her behavior is understandable, considering the circumstances. The cop has no excuse for his behavior. Everything else is frankly window dressing.
  - jlg23 9y ago
    > But the cops were wrong for the same things that cops are _ALWAYS_ wrong for. They're control freaks, they're selfish and self-centered, they diminish other people to empower themselves. The quoted obscenity in the headline is a response to the officer saying "You make take them now", is it any surprise this set her off? Yes, there are idiots who, when given a uniform are "hard" to deal with... But in this situation (all over, she is there basically as a taxi driver) I can only say that I would have been much more blunt with her. You say they are there to "serve us" and I actually mean that: The "us" is better served if they don't engage in pointless discussions but do their actual job instead. > He's just some nobody making $25k/yr He might be making only 25k but he is also making a difference. Do you?
jlg23 9y ago
Where was the "disrespectful" behaviour?
- originalsimba 9y ago
  answered above
_tomasz 9y ago
The officers handled themselves very professionally. This was a legal traffic stop, the driver was issued a citation for having expired registration. Any legal matter between the driver and the city of Tenafly is between the two parties and other than whatever legal requirements for disclosure are in place for reporting the traffic stop, the mother of the adult has no business involving herself.
- rrauenza 9y ago
  He probably also knew if he told her the citation, she'd just argue it... it would prolong the argument longer.

j32fun 9y ago

For those who want to skip to the conclusion of this confrontation, the commissioner was asked to resign from the port authority after an internal investigation by the port authority regarding her behaviour. She was formerly the head of the Government and Ethics committee. Source: http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2018/04/who_is_caren_turner_and_how_did_she_become_the_sta.html http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2018/04/who_is_caren_turner...

JumpCrisscross 9y ago

"Q. Was Turner charged with any wrongdoing? A. No. While the video shows her haranguing police over the traffic stop, dropping the names of elected officials she knew, and her position as a Port Authority commissioner who oversees 4,000 police officers, the Tenafly police did not charge her with obstruction. But the chief of police made a call to the Port Authority's Inspector General, which led to an internal investigation and ultimately her resignation. Q. Is the Port Authority taking any further action? A. Apparently not. A spokesman said the Port Authority board was preparing to form a special committee to review the findings of the Inspector General investigation and take action at this week's board meeting, before Turner submitted her resignation to Gov. Phil Murphy. 'Commissioner Turner's resignation was appropriate given her outrageous conduct,' said the Port Authority spokesman. There has been no indication that anyone else might pursue misconduct charges against her for allegedly misusing her public office." http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2018/04/who_is_caren_turner_and_how_did_she_become_the_sta.html#incart_2box_nj-homepage-featured http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2018/04/who_is_caren_turner...

otp124 9y ago

I want to shake those officer's hands for not putting up with that attitude, and for being respectful while doing it.

rrauenza 9y ago

Her "status" didn't get her what she wanted, but I can't help but feel that conversation went on quite a bit longer than it should have -- because of her status.

ars 9y ago

The biggest problem with government is that only people who want to be in it are in it. And to want to be in it, especially unpaid positions like hers, people expect to get things out of it. Maybe we should think about appointing people to these types of low-profile positions, much like how we do Jury duty.