4 ms·

>Then maybe everyone creating textual output for a living wouldn't have to transport their physical body to an office. Remote work hasn't taken off on a large

by jasode 9y ago

>Then maybe everyone creating textual output for a living wouldn't have to transport their physical body to an office. Remote work hasn't taken off on a large scale because massively successful multi-billion dollar companies like Google/Facebook/Amazon/Apple/SpaceX were not built with remote workers. You get (relatively) minor companies touting it such as Automattic and Basecamp. Those smaller businesses haven't achieved enough success to convince business leaders on a large scale. So to riff on your writing... "if only there were a multi-billion dollar company built on the competitive advantages of remote work." If that happened, we'd then have Harvard Business Review doing endless case studies on its superiority. EDIT TO ADD: There is a limited type of "remote" work that existing successful companies will allow (and even encourage): it's the offsite remote _team_. Some examples include IBM's team to build the "personal computer" down in Miami instead of working in the New York offices. Amazon (Seattle hq) has Lab126 (Silicon Valley) working on the Kindle. Google wanted a rewritten Javascript V8 engine and hired Lars Bak from Denmark. From the story I remember, Lars Bak made it a condition of employment to not relocate to California and because he already had the reputation, Google agreed. At first, he worked out of his home in Denmark but then he opened a Google office and his programming team then worked in that office. Those semi-remote scenarios are about as far as you're going to get until other businesses with full remote employees working from home proves to the business world that "remote working" is a competitive advantage. Remote office with an onsite team in that remote office -- yes. Remote telecommuting from home on a large scale? Not yet.

notheguyouthink 9y ago
Isn't that the same for any new/fringe idea though? Working non-remotely has been the status-quo since before it was possible to work remotely. More curiously, I'd like to see if remote work was responsible for preventing a company from reaching milestones like being a multi-billion dollar company.
- randomdata 9y ago
  > Working non-remotely has been the status-quo since before it was possible to work remotely. As a farmer, I like to think of it as the original working remotely career. Especially in history where your entire land-base and home were one in the same. Working in an office away from home is the 'new fangled' way to work.
soulnothing 9y ago
It's a double standard though. I was at one of the big companies mentioned. I was the only one on my team in my office. Everyone else was remote in a time zone. My manager wasn't on site. But I couldn't work from home, and my desk space was reduced several times during my time there.
- supahfly_remix 9y ago
  What was the difference (in policy or whatever) that allowed your colleagues to remote in but you not?
  - sampo 9y ago
    Maybe it was about their home not being a good environment to work (spouse running a daycare operation for kids, whatever), not about the company policy.
  - pwinnski 9y ago
    Not GP, but many companies have a policy allowing employees to live in remote places, but if you live in the same city as the office, you're not allowed to work from home. The idea seems to be that remote employees are expected to establish a little mini-outpost of that company within their own home, while local employees who "work from home" are more often than not really handling errands or lounging or whatever. It's a double-standard, but a very common one in my experience.
    - supahfly_remix 9y ago
      Thank you for the explanation.
FilterSweep 9y ago
They were also built in a time where "Super Commutes" weren't necessary.
- usaar333 9y ago
  They still aren't "necessary", especially on a programmer's salary. It's only might be necessary if you want a large, single family house.
commandlinefan 9y ago
> Remote work hasn't taken off on a large scale Which is fortunate for any US or European citizen who hopes to ever find employment again.
- majewsky 9y ago
  Even with remote work, cultural barriers are still an issue.
- raverbashing 9y ago
  I'm not worried with the competition from abroad. Culture is an issue (both from the contractor and the hiring sides), quality is another (in some places).
  - commandlinefan 9y ago
    > culture is an issue maybe in theory, but every company I've ever even heard of has been more than happy to throw together almost any random group of people regardless of culture (or even language) as long as they had the right credentials and expect for culture issues to sort themselves out and good quality to appear. But if consistent culture is the important thing... it's a lot easier to find a homogeneous culture in Hyderabad, India than it is in San Francisco, CA (of all places).
raverbashing 9y ago
Red Hat and Canonical have achieved great success with a lot of remote workers. Heck pretty much the entirety of Linux and its ecosystem is remote. All I hear is excuses and lack of willingness to work remotely, coped with lack of experience on how to make it work. From all sides. The secret is following the procedure and working remotely even if the person is sitting next to you. (I don't mean get into a video chat if the person is sitting next to you) but: - Procedures for idea exchange. You might talk to the person next to you or through a private PVT channel but make the ideas circulate. - "Oh Slack/IRC/etc is distracting", do you know what else is distracting? My colleague next to me. Deal with those. - Have good tools and follow procedures.
- jasode 9y ago
  >Heck pretty much the entirety of Linux and its ecosystem is remote. I'm a full 100% remote worker and I would never bring up "Linux development" as evidence for businesses to adopt remote work. If remote work evangelists want to argue for the benefits of work-from-home, please do not use Linux as an example because it undermines credible business thinking. As I've said before[1] and paste again here: Open source development as "obvious" proof of remote work superiority is often brought up but proponents don't realize they aren't the same. E.g. open source project like Linux kernel where volunteers choose what they want to work on, with little or zero effects on careers for missing deadlines has different dynamics than businesses. If we want to convince businesses to adopt remote work, the Linux kernel is not a relevant example. Businesses have: 1) finite budget 2) deadlines 3) pressure to innovate for marketplace acceptance or go bankrupt We need a better explanation for why business-related success of Google Pagerank/Bigtable, Apple iPhone, Facebook, etc comes more from teams in the office rather than remote workers on Skype. The Linux project -- even though it is "successful" -- is not that explanation. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15047805 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15047805
  - d0lph 9y ago
    It does answer communication problems though right? Compared to any business project, the kernel is behemoth.

by jasode 9y ago

notheguyouthink 9y ago

Isn't that the same for any new/fringe idea though? Working non-remotely has been the status-quo since before it was possible to work remotely. More curiously, I'd like to see if remote work was responsible for preventing a company from reaching milestones like being a multi-billion dollar company.

randomdata 9y ago
> Working non-remotely has been the status-quo since before it was possible to work remotely. As a farmer, I like to think of it as the original working remotely career. Especially in history where your entire land-base and home were one in the same. Working in an office away from home is the 'new fangled' way to work.

soulnothing 9y ago

It's a double standard though. I was at one of the big companies mentioned. I was the only one on my team in my office. Everyone else was remote in a time zone. My manager wasn't on site. But I couldn't work from home, and my desk space was reduced several times during my time there.

supahfly_remix 9y ago
What was the difference (in policy or whatever) that allowed your colleagues to remote in but you not?
- sampo 9y ago
  Maybe it was about their home not being a good environment to work (spouse running a daycare operation for kids, whatever), not about the company policy.
- pwinnski 9y ago
  Not GP, but many companies have a policy allowing employees to live in remote places, but if you live in the same city as the office, you're not allowed to work from home. The idea seems to be that remote employees are expected to establish a little mini-outpost of that company within their own home, while local employees who "work from home" are more often than not really handling errands or lounging or whatever. It's a double-standard, but a very common one in my experience.
  - supahfly_remix 9y ago
    Thank you for the explanation.

FilterSweep 9y ago

They were also built in a time where "Super Commutes" weren't necessary.

usaar333 9y ago
They still aren't "necessary", especially on a programmer's salary. It's only might be necessary if you want a large, single family house.

commandlinefan 9y ago

> Remote work hasn't taken off on a large scale Which is fortunate for any US or European citizen who hopes to ever find employment again.

majewsky 9y ago
Even with remote work, cultural barriers are still an issue.
raverbashing 9y ago
I'm not worried with the competition from abroad. Culture is an issue (both from the contractor and the hiring sides), quality is another (in some places).
- commandlinefan 9y ago
  > culture is an issue maybe in theory, but every company I've ever even heard of has been more than happy to throw together almost any random group of people regardless of culture (or even language) as long as they had the right credentials and expect for culture issues to sort themselves out and good quality to appear. But if consistent culture is the important thing... it's a lot easier to find a homogeneous culture in Hyderabad, India than it is in San Francisco, CA (of all places).

raverbashing 9y ago

Red Hat and Canonical have achieved great success with a lot of remote workers. Heck pretty much the entirety of Linux and its ecosystem is remote. All I hear is excuses and lack of willingness to work remotely, coped with lack of experience on how to make it work. From all sides. The secret is following the procedure and working remotely even if the person is sitting next to you. (I don't mean get into a video chat if the person is sitting next to you) but: - Procedures for idea exchange. You might talk to the person next to you or through a private PVT channel but make the ideas circulate. - "Oh Slack/IRC/etc is distracting", do you know what else is distracting? My colleague next to me. Deal with those. - Have good tools and follow procedures.

jasode 9y ago
>Heck pretty much the entirety of Linux and its ecosystem is remote. I'm a full 100% remote worker and I would never bring up "Linux development" as evidence for businesses to adopt remote work. If remote work evangelists want to argue for the benefits of work-from-home, please do not use Linux as an example because it undermines credible business thinking. As I've said before[1] and paste again here: Open source development as "obvious" proof of remote work superiority is often brought up but proponents don't realize they aren't the same. E.g. open source project like Linux kernel where volunteers choose what they want to work on, with little or zero effects on careers for missing deadlines has different dynamics than businesses. If we want to convince businesses to adopt remote work, the Linux kernel is not a relevant example. Businesses have: 1) finite budget 2) deadlines 3) pressure to innovate for marketplace acceptance or go bankrupt We need a better explanation for why business-related success of Google Pagerank/Bigtable, Apple iPhone, Facebook, etc comes more from teams in the office rather than remote workers on Skype. The Linux project -- even though it is "successful" -- is not that explanation. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15047805 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15047805
- d0lph 9y ago
  It does answer communication problems though right? Compared to any business project, the kernel is behemoth.