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This is increasingly common in the Boston area as well. Cambridge/MIT is a massive biotech hub, meanwhile we have huge companies with many large offices in the

This is increasingly common in the Boston area as well. Cambridge/MIT is a massive biotech hub, meanwhile we have huge companies with many large offices in the downtown or in surrounding suburbs. Many workers live in RI, NH, or Central Mass, and getting to work for 9 am consistently will involve leaving at 730 for many, many workers due to congestion, construction, and the god-awful mess that is Boston infrastructure. For those who aren't aware, many of Boston's intersections and squares are terrible intersections, remnants of the crossings due to actual cow-paths. There's also a massive amount of old housing property and relatively little new housing stock. There are high density apartment or condo buildings sprouting up here and there, but by large, you're going to be paying over 1 million for a small/old house in/around Boston, possibly 2 million depending on the location. If you're willing to commute 1.5 hours, you can get a fixer upper in a semi-rural area for around 300-400k. If Amazon came to Boston, it would be compound this problem exponentially, though whoever owns property currently would definitely make a good return.

tjridesbikes 9y ago
This is the exact reason I don't commute by car. I live in Jamaica Plain and work in Kendall Square. Driving takes 45 minutes to go 4 miles. Taking the T takes 40 minutes. I ride my bike and my commute is 17 minutes each way, no matter the hour, traffic, or weather.
- WhompingWindows 9y ago
  Ah, nice! I lived in Arlington and my commute to Cambridge was literally 2X faster on a bike than any other possible method. It's crazy to ZOOM down the bike lane at 15 mph while the cars are idling at 0mph waiting for the very slow traffic cycles to progress.
ilamont 9y ago
What I find amazing is companies insisting on being located near Kendall or the Seaport District (and paying massive amounts of money for the privilege) to be "innovative." Why aren't more companies in New England going to where the commercial real estate and housing are cheaper?
- ghaff 9y ago
  A lot of tech (outside of biotech) in MA is still outside Boston. After all, when Teradyne moved out (in the 90s?), they were at that point pretty much the last tech company in Boston. A lot of the new tech offices are the west coast company satellite offices. My company does have an office in the Seaport but it's in Boston specifically because it makes more sense to have a customer briefing center there. Most MA employees are about 45 minutes west. ADDED: And when biotech started going into Kendall Square that area was pretty much old warehouses. Of course, now it's some of the most expensive real estate in the Boston area. I know someone whose company moved out of Kendall Square to move to the Finance District because it was cheaper.
- Steltek 9y ago
  A few reasons, I suppose: * No T access or... * Other transit stations don't have existing office buildings or are equally built out, losing to other advantages as... * No "scene" - Kendall and the Seaport have a "feel" to them that you don't find at, say, Alewife
- several 9y ago
  Part(s) of problem is A. access to employees with the right skill sets and B. their respective commutes and desire to live closer to the city. So, you could choose to locate a company in Worcester (or even closer in, say, Framingham), but many of the 20/30 somethings will have a tough time getting to these locations and these towns themselves don't have people with the necessary skill sets. It's criminal the train from Boston to Worcester is slower today than it was in 1950. But that's another topic.
averageweather 9y ago
Correct regarding the 9am comment. I live 30mi west of Boston and it is essentially an automatic 90min if I were to leave my house at 730am. For reference, it is 35min w/o traffic. Natick, MA seems to have become the "I can't afford Newton and Wellesley" town. Prices are crazy. I thought the removal of physical toll booths from the Mass Pike would help. I have seen absolutely no benefit.
- WhompingWindows 9y ago
  I've had a bit of experience with Route 9 in Framingham. You have this one light near a Whole Foods which causes a massive backup, it can go for miles. The reason? There's another street that comes in at around a 30-40 degree angle to route 9, and it gets its own light cycle rather than having an on-ramp. Big problem in RI, if you've ever driven down to the south county beaches on Rt 1, you'll actually be on a "highway" that has 6-7 lights. Why not just have off/on-ramps? Infrastructure is hard, apparently no one wants to spend on that.
r_klancer 9y ago
Anecdata: I signed the contract yesterday for a small Somerville single-family, near the Cambridge line, for just over $700k. I'm expecting to put $200k+ into it. If a developer got their hands on it, they would expand the square footage to the maximum possible extent, put in the trendiest appliances and finishes, and flip it for > $1m. That seems to be the economically rational thing for them to do in this market. But I lock in a 20-25 minute bike ride (or 50-minute walk + public transit ride in winter) to work in the Seaport. I saw I-93 at rush hour once, and I shudder at the memory. At least part of my reasoning was, "What if Amazon does choose Boston? Do I move my family into a second or third floor condo with no yard at all?"
- several 9y ago
  Quite curious where you managed to find a single family in Somerville for $700K. On zillow the only listings between 650-750K are 1000 sqft condos.
oo0shiny 9y ago
Yup. I commute into Cambridge from the middle of NH (~60 miles away). It takes me an average of 90-120 minutes to get to work. People who live "in" the city still take an hour and they have a fraction of the distance to travel. Getting around in Boston is a nightmare, even more so if the weather isn't perfect.
ghaff 9y ago
Getting into the city has gotten significantly worse over the past handful of years. As you say, the congestion is such that even coming into the city from the west where I live after work is sufficiently slow that I've cut back on doing it. >If Amazon came to Boston, it would be compound this problem exponentially, though whoever owns property currently would definitely make a good return. The proposed location (Suffolk Downs) is sort of an odd one from a housing perspective. It is on the T but that's all very blue collar neighborhoods around there, some of which have gentrified a bit but still not places your typical software engineer would normally choose to live.

tjridesbikes 9y ago

This is the exact reason I don't commute by car. I live in Jamaica Plain and work in Kendall Square. Driving takes 45 minutes to go 4 miles. Taking the T takes 40 minutes. I ride my bike and my commute is 17 minutes each way, no matter the hour, traffic, or weather.

WhompingWindows 9y ago
Ah, nice! I lived in Arlington and my commute to Cambridge was literally 2X faster on a bike than any other possible method. It's crazy to ZOOM down the bike lane at 15 mph while the cars are idling at 0mph waiting for the very slow traffic cycles to progress.

ilamont 9y ago

What I find amazing is companies insisting on being located near Kendall or the Seaport District (and paying massive amounts of money for the privilege) to be "innovative." Why aren't more companies in New England going to where the commercial real estate and housing are cheaper?

ghaff 9y ago
A lot of tech (outside of biotech) in MA is still outside Boston. After all, when Teradyne moved out (in the 90s?), they were at that point pretty much the last tech company in Boston. A lot of the new tech offices are the west coast company satellite offices. My company does have an office in the Seaport but it's in Boston specifically because it makes more sense to have a customer briefing center there. Most MA employees are about 45 minutes west. ADDED: And when biotech started going into Kendall Square that area was pretty much old warehouses. Of course, now it's some of the most expensive real estate in the Boston area. I know someone whose company moved out of Kendall Square to move to the Finance District because it was cheaper.
Steltek 9y ago
A few reasons, I suppose: * No T access or... * Other transit stations don't have existing office buildings or are equally built out, losing to other advantages as... * No "scene" - Kendall and the Seaport have a "feel" to them that you don't find at, say, Alewife
several 9y ago
Part(s) of problem is A. access to employees with the right skill sets and B. their respective commutes and desire to live closer to the city. So, you could choose to locate a company in Worcester (or even closer in, say, Framingham), but many of the 20/30 somethings will have a tough time getting to these locations and these towns themselves don't have people with the necessary skill sets. It's criminal the train from Boston to Worcester is slower today than it was in 1950. But that's another topic.

averageweather 9y ago

Correct regarding the 9am comment. I live 30mi west of Boston and it is essentially an automatic 90min if I were to leave my house at 730am. For reference, it is 35min w/o traffic. Natick, MA seems to have become the "I can't afford Newton and Wellesley" town. Prices are crazy. I thought the removal of physical toll booths from the Mass Pike would help. I have seen absolutely no benefit.

WhompingWindows 9y ago
I've had a bit of experience with Route 9 in Framingham. You have this one light near a Whole Foods which causes a massive backup, it can go for miles. The reason? There's another street that comes in at around a 30-40 degree angle to route 9, and it gets its own light cycle rather than having an on-ramp. Big problem in RI, if you've ever driven down to the south county beaches on Rt 1, you'll actually be on a "highway" that has 6-7 lights. Why not just have off/on-ramps? Infrastructure is hard, apparently no one wants to spend on that.

r_klancer 9y ago

Anecdata: I signed the contract yesterday for a small Somerville single-family, near the Cambridge line, for just over $700k. I'm expecting to put $200k+ into it. If a developer got their hands on it, they would expand the square footage to the maximum possible extent, put in the trendiest appliances and finishes, and flip it for > $1m. That seems to be the economically rational thing for them to do in this market. But I lock in a 20-25 minute bike ride (or 50-minute walk + public transit ride in winter) to work in the Seaport. I saw I-93 at rush hour once, and I shudder at the memory. At least part of my reasoning was, "What if Amazon does choose Boston? Do I move my family into a second or third floor condo with no yard at all?"

several 9y ago
Quite curious where you managed to find a single family in Somerville for $700K. On zillow the only listings between 650-750K are 1000 sqft condos.

oo0shiny 9y ago

Yup. I commute into Cambridge from the middle of NH (~60 miles away). It takes me an average of 90-120 minutes to get to work. People who live "in" the city still take an hour and they have a fraction of the distance to travel. Getting around in Boston is a nightmare, even more so if the weather isn't perfect.

ghaff 9y ago

Getting into the city has gotten significantly worse over the past handful of years. As you say, the congestion is such that even coming into the city from the west where I live after work is sufficiently slow that I've cut back on doing it. >If Amazon came to Boston, it would be compound this problem exponentially, though whoever owns property currently would definitely make a good return. The proposed location (Suffolk Downs) is sort of an odd one from a housing perspective. It is on the T but that's all very blue collar neighborhoods around there, some of which have gentrified a bit but still not places your typical software engineer would normally choose to live.