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The vast fear and ignorance in this thread is amusing but the comparison of China to Nazi Germany is perhaps a new low, even for Hacker News? It's interesting

by dnomad 8y ago

The vast fear and ignorance in this thread is amusing but the comparison of China to Nazi Germany is perhaps a new low, even for Hacker News? It's interesting though how people develop such warped perceptions of the world. It's exactly how the greatest disaster of the 21st century, the absolutely unprovoked and absolutely senseless American invasion of Iraq which killed a million people and directly led to the rise of Isis and even more extreme suffering, come to pass. And so what you have here is a bunch of silly people, few of which have likely even been to China let alone done any serious investigation of Chinese culture or politics, utterly trapped in a paranoid fantasy in which -- believe it or not -- China is the aggressor coming for their markets. Nevermind the US's military bases all over the world or the TPP, an initiative started by the US with the explicit goal of denying and containing Chinese expansion. This sort of delusion is just breath taking. I guess all one can do is hope it doesn't lead to war but I strongly suspect it is. Americans will never face reality as this thread shows. They will gladly and firmly embrace the delusion and blame all their problems on somebody else even if it leads to absolute catastrophe. Absolutely nothing has changed since the Iraq War.

ng12 8y ago
I'd love to see a defense of Chinese policy that doesn't fall back upon whataboutism. America's shortcomings have nothing to do with my ability to criticism China's human rights abuses and appalling lack of individual liberty.
- dnomad 8y ago
  There are plenty of people in China who are happy to discuss the pros and cons of their government, especially as compared to America. You could even read Chinese newspapers and forums (some are in English or you could even learn Mandarin!) where this stuff is hashed out all the time. But it would require courage and integrity and a real willingness to learn. It's much easier to parrot what you hear second-hand from the media, isn't it? The real issue here isn't Chinese policy. Frankly, I doubt you're actually interested in Chinese policy or even the welfare of the Chinese people. The real issue here is the power of ignorance and fear. Reactions like above are a monument to it.
  - ng12 8y ago
    > There are plenty of people in China who are happy to discuss the pros and cons of their government, especially as compared to America https://vimeo.com/44078865 https://vimeo.com/44078865 https://rsf.org/en/ranking https://rsf.org/en/ranking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chinese_dissidents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chinese_dissidents http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2018/04/24/china-assigns-every-citizen-a-social-credit-score-to-identify-who-is-and-isnt-trustworthy/ http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2018/04/24/china-assigns-every-c... I'm sure you'll forgive my skepticism.
  - mistermann 8y ago
    Is it possible to criticize China without it being classified as "ignorance and fear"? Seriously, what "ignorance" are you referring to? Is it perhaps your mind interpreting specific criticisms as claims of pure evil?
  - _qbxp 8y ago
    I'm genuinely interested in hearing pros and cons on the Chinese government from Chinese who are currently living in mainland China. Particularly on the topics that are the biggest flash points on HN - government censorship/great firewall/surveillance/social credit scores, etc. Do you have any English-language resources for this? Or decently translated sources? No snark or sarcasm - I've searched before, but either find nothing or hit a language barrier.
    - mistermann 8y ago
      Here are some informative YouTube channels that I've watched for quite some time: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwNPa8fSXzzAZuT9859GVhg https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwNPa8fSXzzAZuT9859GVhg https://www.youtube.com/user/ChinaNonStop https://www.youtube.com/user/ChinaNonStop https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgFP46yVT-GG4o1TgXn-04Q https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgFP46yVT-GG4o1TgXn-04Q Typically someone will very quickly chime in and say these are "propaganda" and you should completely ignore them. If you ask these people if the facts stated in the video are true or false, they will not answer the question. Watch with a skeptical mind, compare to facts you read in other sources, and judge for yourself. A big difference between these YouTubers (well, China Uncensored is biased to be fair) and what you'll read in the mainstream media is, these people live there, they are reporting the truth far more accurately than you'll get from other sources (on the topics they cover - they don't really get into macroeconomics for example.)
madengr 8y ago
Islam led to the rise of ISIS. It’s not the USA fault the Middle East is incapable of democracy. How many people were killed in the cultural revolution?
mistermann 8y ago
> The vast fear and ignorance in this thread is amusing but the comparison of China to Nazi Germany is perhaps a new low, even for Hacker News?. It's interesting though how people develop such warped perceptions of the world. It's amazing how you can deduce what I believe without me having said it. How long have you been able to read minds? It is this hyper-anti-racism aspect of modern western culture that is enabling China to walk in and take over the world, and get the people from whom they're taking market share help them out in their endeavor.
whatyoucantsay 8y ago
> the comparison of China to Nazi Germany is perhaps a new low, even for Hacker News? How so? Mao killed 70 million compared to Hitler's 20. And Germany doesn't hold their former leader in high regard anymore.
pentae 8y ago
It always amazes me the mental gymnastics involved from people who support Chinas censorship regime. Freedom of information and the open Internet is one of the most important and valuable things thats happened to humanity but hey man, you just don't respect their way of doing things. Sorry, a country that censors Google and Wikipedia, brainwashes its people with propaganda and runs a social credit score system isn't a country any intellectual worth his or her salt should be participating in.

by dnomad 8y ago

ng12 8y ago

I'd love to see a defense of Chinese policy that doesn't fall back upon whataboutism. America's shortcomings have nothing to do with my ability to criticism China's human rights abuses and appalling lack of individual liberty.

dnomad 8y ago
There are plenty of people in China who are happy to discuss the pros and cons of their government, especially as compared to America. You could even read Chinese newspapers and forums (some are in English or you could even learn Mandarin!) where this stuff is hashed out all the time. But it would require courage and integrity and a real willingness to learn. It's much easier to parrot what you hear second-hand from the media, isn't it? The real issue here isn't Chinese policy. Frankly, I doubt you're actually interested in Chinese policy or even the welfare of the Chinese people. The real issue here is the power of ignorance and fear. Reactions like above are a monument to it.
- ng12 8y ago
  > There are plenty of people in China who are happy to discuss the pros and cons of their government, especially as compared to America https://vimeo.com/44078865 https://vimeo.com/44078865 https://rsf.org/en/ranking https://rsf.org/en/ranking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chinese_dissidents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chinese_dissidents http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2018/04/24/china-assigns-every-citizen-a-social-credit-score-to-identify-who-is-and-isnt-trustworthy/ http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2018/04/24/china-assigns-every-c... I'm sure you'll forgive my skepticism.
- mistermann 8y ago
  Is it possible to criticize China without it being classified as "ignorance and fear"? Seriously, what "ignorance" are you referring to? Is it perhaps your mind interpreting specific criticisms as claims of pure evil?
- _qbxp 8y ago
  I'm genuinely interested in hearing pros and cons on the Chinese government from Chinese who are currently living in mainland China. Particularly on the topics that are the biggest flash points on HN - government censorship/great firewall/surveillance/social credit scores, etc. Do you have any English-language resources for this? Or decently translated sources? No snark or sarcasm - I've searched before, but either find nothing or hit a language barrier.
  - mistermann 8y ago
    Here are some informative YouTube channels that I've watched for quite some time: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwNPa8fSXzzAZuT9859GVhg https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwNPa8fSXzzAZuT9859GVhg https://www.youtube.com/user/ChinaNonStop https://www.youtube.com/user/ChinaNonStop https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgFP46yVT-GG4o1TgXn-04Q https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgFP46yVT-GG4o1TgXn-04Q Typically someone will very quickly chime in and say these are "propaganda" and you should completely ignore them. If you ask these people if the facts stated in the video are true or false, they will not answer the question. Watch with a skeptical mind, compare to facts you read in other sources, and judge for yourself. A big difference between these YouTubers (well, China Uncensored is biased to be fair) and what you'll read in the mainstream media is, these people live there, they are reporting the truth far more accurately than you'll get from other sources (on the topics they cover - they don't really get into macroeconomics for example.)

madengr 8y ago

Islam led to the rise of ISIS. It’s not the USA fault the Middle East is incapable of democracy. How many people were killed in the cultural revolution?

mistermann 8y ago

> The vast fear and ignorance in this thread is amusing but the comparison of China to Nazi Germany is perhaps a new low, even for Hacker News?. It's interesting though how people develop such warped perceptions of the world. It's amazing how you can deduce what I believe without me having said it. How long have you been able to read minds? It is this hyper-anti-racism aspect of modern western culture that is enabling China to walk in and take over the world, and get the people from whom they're taking market share help them out in their endeavor.

whatyoucantsay 8y ago

> the comparison of China to Nazi Germany is perhaps a new low, even for Hacker News? How so? Mao killed 70 million compared to Hitler's 20. And Germany doesn't hold their former leader in high regard anymore.

pentae 8y ago

It always amazes me the mental gymnastics involved from people who support Chinas censorship regime. Freedom of information and the open Internet is one of the most important and valuable things thats happened to humanity but hey man, you just don't respect their way of doing things. Sorry, a country that censors Google and Wikipedia, brainwashes its people with propaganda and runs a social credit score system isn't a country any intellectual worth his or her salt should be participating in.