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>You won't be allowed into China if you do. My understanding is that you have to just check your free speech at the door. For example my immpression is that s

>You won't be allowed into China if you do. My understanding is that you have to just check your free speech at the door. For example my immpression is that specifically you, auganov, even if this profile is under your real name, would be allowed into China without any issue. (Despite what you've just written.) The standard I've heard said is that "you wouldn't be able to stand in Tiananman square with a 'Free Tibet' sign". To those of us in the free world, that's a ridiculously stifling standard. You can stand in Washington or Times Square with a sign reading whatever you want, 'it's a free country'. China, obviously, isn't. You can't use the standard "hey, it's a free country" because it's not. But this does not extend to your speech outside of China. Trying to bring your free speech into China seems (to me), on a practical level, like trying to bring your heroin, cocaine, and guns in your carry-on to America. Can't do that (and there would be serious consequences.) But that doesn't mean you can't have ever touched a gun, cocaine, or heroin in your life, it's not retroactive. To prove my case, let me say that Taiwan is an independent country, Tibet doesn't belong to China, and, hmmmm what else don't they like. Oh Xi is a dictator for wanting to be President for life. I wouldn't ever say any of those things if I'm in China, even in English, even on an international forum, because I would have checked my free speech at the border. On a practical level state oppression is a huge private business. When you're in China you're not free, even in your mundane online speech, such as in private messages in wechat. People pay attention to watching what they say, on an everyday level. But to return to my point, it doesn't mean you wouldn't be allowed in China if you expressed your thoughts previously in the free world. EDIT: I forgot to mention, I've heard an exception for journalists, in the sense that their previous speech is examined more closely, but I don't know if they're refused entry or just watched more closely once there.

auganov 9y ago
False. Examples: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-42053790 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-42053790 https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/22/australian-critic-of-beijing-refused-entry-to-china-and-deported https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/22/australian-cri... Be notable or persistent enough and it'll get you banned.
- logicallee 9y ago
  Both of the articles references say "You should know" The Katy Perry article says there was no official reason given or confirmation but: >But the Global Times, a state-run tabloid, chimed in, saying that if it was true "they had brought it on themselves". It further references that Katy Perry wore a flower dress, an Anti-China symbol, while giving a concert in Taiwan, and that she "draped Taiwan's flag at the concert. It caused a backlash in China, with many accusing her of supporting Taiwanese independence." This kind of counts as activist activity and most importantly it did not happen abroad, but in China or Taiwan. The second article says: >“I asked them, ‘What’s the reason?’,” Hugh said. “Their answer was pretty diplomatic, they said, ‘You should know’.” and it says: >Hugh is the head of the Australian Values Alliance, a loose coalition of Chinese-Australians who promote “democracy and freedom” and are critical of Beijing’s policies. Last week he was prominently involved in the Sydney book launch of Prof Clive Hamilton’s book Silent Invasion: China’s Influence in Australia, which details covert, state-sponsored or co-ordinated operations to exert Chinese Communist party influence in Australia. You might have missed an edit I made to my reply to you within a couple of minutes of when I wrote it, in which I remembered that people engaged in public or journalistic type things are held to a different standard (more likely to be refused entry.) So as far as I personally am concerned, I think if I did something with a lot of visibility I would have to watch what I say and do, especially if I was literally doing something that would be considered activism. Do you think I should edit my original reply to you to remove the sentence "But that doesn't mean you can't have ever touched a gun, cocaine, or heroin in your life, it's not retroactive. To prove my case, let me say that Taiwan is an independent country, Tibet doesn't belong to China, and, hmmmm what else don't they like. Oh Xi is a dictator for wanting to be President for life."? Will this off-hand remark which has next to no audience, and made outside of China, cause me to be refused a visa in the future for no real reason? I am talking about a practical level here. I've gotten feedback from a lot of people since obviously this is a different standard than I'm used to living in the free world. I'd remove the part of my comment I just quoted if it'll get me banned from entering China. (I don't think it would.) What do you think?
  - auganov 9y ago
    No, I don't think that China is an omnipotent censor that's going to ban you for an odd comment on HN. In the same way you can be gay, go to the most vile anti-LGBT places in the world and have a blast. Who cares? The point of criticism is you want to get heard.

auganov 9y ago

False. Examples: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-42053790 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-42053790 https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/22/australian-critic-of-beijing-refused-entry-to-china-and-deported https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/22/australian-cri... Be notable or persistent enough and it'll get you banned.

logicallee 9y ago
Both of the articles references say "You should know" The Katy Perry article says there was no official reason given or confirmation but: >But the Global Times, a state-run tabloid, chimed in, saying that if it was true "they had brought it on themselves". It further references that Katy Perry wore a flower dress, an Anti-China symbol, while giving a concert in Taiwan, and that she "draped Taiwan's flag at the concert. It caused a backlash in China, with many accusing her of supporting Taiwanese independence." This kind of counts as activist activity and most importantly it did not happen abroad, but in China or Taiwan. The second article says: >“I asked them, ‘What’s the reason?’,” Hugh said. “Their answer was pretty diplomatic, they said, ‘You should know’.” and it says: >Hugh is the head of the Australian Values Alliance, a loose coalition of Chinese-Australians who promote “democracy and freedom” and are critical of Beijing’s policies. Last week he was prominently involved in the Sydney book launch of Prof Clive Hamilton’s book Silent Invasion: China’s Influence in Australia, which details covert, state-sponsored or co-ordinated operations to exert Chinese Communist party influence in Australia. You might have missed an edit I made to my reply to you within a couple of minutes of when I wrote it, in which I remembered that people engaged in public or journalistic type things are held to a different standard (more likely to be refused entry.) So as far as I personally am concerned, I think if I did something with a lot of visibility I would have to watch what I say and do, especially if I was literally doing something that would be considered activism. Do you think I should edit my original reply to you to remove the sentence "But that doesn't mean you can't have ever touched a gun, cocaine, or heroin in your life, it's not retroactive. To prove my case, let me say that Taiwan is an independent country, Tibet doesn't belong to China, and, hmmmm what else don't they like. Oh Xi is a dictator for wanting to be President for life."? Will this off-hand remark which has next to no audience, and made outside of China, cause me to be refused a visa in the future for no real reason? I am talking about a practical level here. I've gotten feedback from a lot of people since obviously this is a different standard than I'm used to living in the free world. I'd remove the part of my comment I just quoted if it'll get me banned from entering China. (I don't think it would.) What do you think?
- auganov 9y ago
  No, I don't think that China is an omnipotent censor that's going to ban you for an odd comment on HN. In the same way you can be gay, go to the most vile anti-LGBT places in the world and have a blast. Who cares? The point of criticism is you want to get heard.