4 ms·

> When the desire to maintain a common identity is based on racial or ethnic identity... then that desire can be accurately described as racist or at best xenop

> When the desire to maintain a common identity is based on racial or ethnic identity... then that desire can be accurately described as racist or at best xenophobic. This would be true and understandable if immigration wasn't so incredibly skewed towards Mexicans, but it is skewed. There are over 11 million illegal immigrants in a country of 300 million, the majority of which are Mexican/Latino. That is an incredibly large amount. > Until the demographics of the country began to shift to the point that the majority status and political power of wh - sorry - people of European descent - began to be threatened, this didn't seem to be an issue. It is clearly a movement based on an attempt to normalize the redefinition of culture and community around race and ethnicity. I find it funny how you blame white people for the hate, then blame them for the redefinition of culture and community around race and ethnicity... right after blaming white people for some perceived degradation of our country...

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
TheOtherHobbes 9y ago
How many of the problems the US faces are genuinely caused by immigration, and how many would change if immigration ended? That's the crux of the matter. Factually, in the UK virtually none of our social and economic problems have been caused by immigration. When you look into the facts, unaffordable housing, a creaking health service, street violence, and job losses are all effects of policy, not specific groups of foreign people. Coincidentally, the people pushing the policies that created our problems are also the most enthusiastic using immigrants as a scapegoat and misdirection. I wonder if the US is the same.
- ForRealsies 9y ago
  Part and parcel of living in a big city like London.
- mantas 9y ago
  Immigrants do put pressure on housing and health services though. As well as directly causing job losses by dumping wages. Of course, a magical policy may have stopped those issues. But taking in a lot of immigrants and not changing policies accordingly is what causes havoc.
  - okmokmz 9y ago
    How much pressure does immigration put on housing? According to this article the US has 18.9 million vacant homes. Even if every homeless person and illegal immigrant in the United States received a home there would still be a surplus https://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-skip-bronson/post_733_b_692546.html https://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-skip-bronson/post_733...
    - mantas 9y ago
      OP was talking about UK. Which, in immigrant context, is mostly London. Which is truly sad housing situation. Talking your link, the problem is most of the vacant homes are where people don't want to live. You'd have 3.5mio people without incomes to maintain their housing. Why Silicon Valley has housing crisis if there're 18.9mio vacant houses? :)
  - wool_gather 9y ago
    > directly causing job losses by dumping wages Largely a myth, according to fairly recent research. https://www.brookings.edu/blog/jobs/2012/05/04/what-immigration-means-for-u-s-employment-and-wages/ https://www.brookings.edu/blog/jobs/2012/05/04/what-immigrat...
    - mantas 9y ago
      It may be different in US. But in EU were a lot of migration is at least a bit skilled, it’s very real. Society needs only so much plumbers or truck drivers. If immigrants come and agree to work for half of the wage, locals are priced out. Some of them may transition to management, but many of them have no skills nor will to do that. Let alone that few new managers are needed for barely bigger amount of people. I agree with your article if there was a massive need for people in X industry and they just filled the gap. But that’s not what usually happens, at least in Europe.
- okmokmz 9y ago
  >the people pushing the policies that created our problems are also the most enthusiastic using immigrants as a scapegoat and misdirection Yup, Trump's wall is a fantastic example
krapp 9y ago
>This would be true and understandable if immigration wasn't so incredibly skewed towards Mexicans, but it is skewed. And people's views on race don't map neatly to a purely genetic definition, nor do their views of ethnicity map to geographic boundaries. It's not at all unbelievable that Americans would see Mexicans as a different race. >I find it funny how you blame white people for the hate, then blame them for the redefinition of culture and community around race and ethnicity... right after blaming white people for some perceived degradation of our country... I'm assuming this is supposed to discredit my comment somehow, but I don't know how it would, nor do I really care. I don't blame white people for that redefinition. I blame the alt-right and white supremacist movements for seeing an opportunity to spin widespread anger (among lower class people of various races and ethnic groups) with the effects of globalization and automation into a revolution to maintain and protect white culture. And I've simply seen too many arguments around this issue since the last election cycle began (funny how it seems to have sprung fully formed and fully clothed from the breast of the Trump campaign, huh) and too many articles framing the modern populist movement as an issue of white racial identity and fear of the loss of white cultural and political majority, and seen that view defended many times, to believe for a second that the confusion in your prior comment was genuine, unless you've been living under a rock for the last few years.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

TheOtherHobbes 9y ago

How many of the problems the US faces are genuinely caused by immigration, and how many would change if immigration ended? That's the crux of the matter. Factually, in the UK virtually none of our social and economic problems have been caused by immigration. When you look into the facts, unaffordable housing, a creaking health service, street violence, and job losses are all effects of policy, not specific groups of foreign people. Coincidentally, the people pushing the policies that created our problems are also the most enthusiastic using immigrants as a scapegoat and misdirection. I wonder if the US is the same.

ForRealsies 9y ago
Part and parcel of living in a big city like London.
mantas 9y ago
Immigrants do put pressure on housing and health services though. As well as directly causing job losses by dumping wages. Of course, a magical policy may have stopped those issues. But taking in a lot of immigrants and not changing policies accordingly is what causes havoc.
- okmokmz 9y ago
  How much pressure does immigration put on housing? According to this article the US has 18.9 million vacant homes. Even if every homeless person and illegal immigrant in the United States received a home there would still be a surplus https://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-skip-bronson/post_733_b_692546.html https://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-skip-bronson/post_733...
  - mantas 9y ago
    OP was talking about UK. Which, in immigrant context, is mostly London. Which is truly sad housing situation. Talking your link, the problem is most of the vacant homes are where people don't want to live. You'd have 3.5mio people without incomes to maintain their housing. Why Silicon Valley has housing crisis if there're 18.9mio vacant houses? :)
- wool_gather 9y ago
  > directly causing job losses by dumping wages Largely a myth, according to fairly recent research. https://www.brookings.edu/blog/jobs/2012/05/04/what-immigration-means-for-u-s-employment-and-wages/ https://www.brookings.edu/blog/jobs/2012/05/04/what-immigrat...
  - mantas 9y ago
    It may be different in US. But in EU were a lot of migration is at least a bit skilled, it’s very real. Society needs only so much plumbers or truck drivers. If immigrants come and agree to work for half of the wage, locals are priced out. Some of them may transition to management, but many of them have no skills nor will to do that. Let alone that few new managers are needed for barely bigger amount of people. I agree with your article if there was a massive need for people in X industry and they just filled the gap. But that’s not what usually happens, at least in Europe.
okmokmz 9y ago
>the people pushing the policies that created our problems are also the most enthusiastic using immigrants as a scapegoat and misdirection Yup, Trump's wall is a fantastic example

krapp 9y ago

>This would be true and understandable if immigration wasn't so incredibly skewed towards Mexicans, but it is skewed. And people's views on race don't map neatly to a purely genetic definition, nor do their views of ethnicity map to geographic boundaries. It's not at all unbelievable that Americans would see Mexicans as a different race. >I find it funny how you blame white people for the hate, then blame them for the redefinition of culture and community around race and ethnicity... right after blaming white people for some perceived degradation of our country... I'm assuming this is supposed to discredit my comment somehow, but I don't know how it would, nor do I really care. I don't blame white people for that redefinition. I blame the alt-right and white supremacist movements for seeing an opportunity to spin widespread anger (among lower class people of various races and ethnic groups) with the effects of globalization and automation into a revolution to maintain and protect white culture. And I've simply seen too many arguments around this issue since the last election cycle began (funny how it seems to have sprung fully formed and fully clothed from the breast of the Trump campaign, huh) and too many articles framing the modern populist movement as an issue of white racial identity and fear of the loss of white cultural and political majority, and seen that view defended many times, to believe for a second that the confusion in your prior comment was genuine, unless you've been living under a rock for the last few years.