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Disclaimer: I have never seen a single episode of The Wire. Am I alone in thinking that this is a complete waste of time? Why would I go to Harvard to hear l

Disclaimer: I have never seen a single episode of The Wire. Am I alone in thinking that this is a complete waste of time? Why would I go to Harvard to hear learned commentary on a TV show? Granted, this is a critically acclaimed TV show, but it's still just meant to entertain. If I paid the exorbitant Harvard tuition, I would be incensed to be made to study a TV show. Maybe others wouldn't? Does anyone here feel like it's a positive instead of a negative? EDIT: I see that I have apparently angered some people by asking this question, judging by the downvotes. I didn't mean to offend - I just wanted to see what made this show different from other TV, which several of you have explained. Again, my apologies.

ahi 16y ago
If I paid the exorbitant Harvard tuition and they made me study a romance novel I'd be pissed too. The Wire isn't pulp. It's the television equivalent of literature. The writing is really that good.
- kenjackson 16y ago
  You really can't fck with the fckin writing on the Wire. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQbsnSVM1zM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQbsnSVM1zM
johnfn 16y ago
Why shouldn't universities study TV shows? Lets make an analogy with books. Most books are, in the end, "just meant to entertain", but it would be ridiculous to argue that universities shouldn't study them. Why? Well, some books go beyond just entertainment into a further realm: commentary on the human situation, raising and questioning of philosophic questions, etc. I think that the Wire fits into the same mold as an excellent book. Saying that it's just to entertain misses the bigger goals that it's trying to accomplish. It has brilliant script writing and direction, and it really raises questions into the areas that it portrays (the drug war, corruption in legal areas, etc) that I had never considered before. (And yes, you should watch it. :) )
andrewvc 16y ago
You're deriding the course based on medium, not message. Perhaps we also shouldn't use a 'common' language like English and revert to being taught in Latin. Additionally, If you'd actually seen The Wire you probably would not be arguing against this course. The Wire isn't just any piece of entertainment, it's the result of David Simon's years of observations as a journalist in Baltimore, a thesis covering his observations of how institutions fail individuals, in particular the black urban poor in Baltimore. While The Wire may be fictional, it's quite pointed in its messages, and as the author says, it weaves together many connected threads into a unified whole in a way many academic texts lack. Lastly, it doesn't just tell you what's going on in a dry, disconnected tone like an academic text. It makes you truly grok and indeed FEEL what's going on. In my view, that definitely elevates this course.
rauljara 16y ago
First: it is a single course, and it does not appear to be a required one. No one is being made to study it. Students are being given the option of studying it. Second: All manner of art is studied in college, from novels, to sculpture, to film. TV is but another genre, and while it an unfortunate history of being a "low art", a lot of recent tv definitely rises to level of a lot of the films that are studied in college today. That being said, I'm a little leery of the context in which the show is being studied. The course is on urban inequality. Even though the wire is very well researched, it's still fiction. If you want to talk about the realities on which the wire is based, why not study those realities directly? Why let an intricately plotted work of fiction serve as your primary window into that world? I'd be fine with showing some scenes from the Wire in a course on urban inequality, but I'd really hate to give students the impression that the Wire is the final authority on what life in Baltimore is like.
- andrewce 16y ago
  " I'd be fine with showing some scenes from the Wire in a course on urban inequality, but I'd really hate to give students the impression that the Wire is the final authority on what life in Baltimore is like." Hopefully, students will be smart enough to realize that "The Wire" is a work of fiction (as you and others have pointed out). However, the difficult thing about teaching just from research and theory is that it is extremely difficult to gain a concrete understanding without a concrete presentation. When I was going through the teacher education program in college, we read a lot of (what I thought were very compelling) scholarly articles explaining how current practices (regarding instruction, assessment, and so on) were flawed and then proposing better practices. The discussions we had were often of the "Okay, I see what the author is saying" variety, but ended up with very little actionable follow-through. I remember getting in trouble for trying to heed the advice of the research ("I don't care what the research says, we're doing it this way and that's final.") What I am trying to say is that research and statistics are all fine and dandy, but the students at Harvard are mostly white and mostly from reasonably affluent families who live near other reasonably affluent families. Ideally, we could study those realities directly via fieldwork, but that's simply not a possibility for most. So, in lieu of giving these students a completely abstract understanding without any lived experience (even if it is vicarious and fictional), "The Wire" comes in.
wriq 16y ago
Disclaimer: I believe 'The Wire' is the greatest TV series I have ever seen Well it seems to be a class on urban inequality that uses characters from The Wire as examples. The show was critically acclaimed and many of the characters are based off people known by the creators (a Balitmore Police Officer/School Teacher & Baltimore Sun Reporter) "Our seminar was designed for 30 students; four times that many showed up for the first class last week." Using the show to promote a class discussing a real sociological problem seems like a good idea.
tptacek 16y ago
The Wire is based off multiple people's journalism careers in the city of Baltimore. It's fictional, but it's fiction intended to synthesize David Simon's worldview about the failure of institutions (of all kinds) in modern American cities; it's a more effective communicator of that message than his raw reporting would be, and that raw reporting is clearly fair game for a class. If it makes you feel better, check out _ Homicide: A Year on the Killing Streets_ and _ The Corner: A Year in the Life of an Inner-City Neighborhood_ --- both great books, as gripping as The Wire, and used throughout the series as source material. Both totally nonfic.
- scott_s 16y ago
  I was going to point out both books. The Corner is one of the most soul-crushingly depressing books I've ever read. I could only read a few pages at a time. The knowledge that these were real people made it feel like I was actually watching these people's lives either fall apart around them, or get even worse than they already are.
potatolicious 16y ago
Disclaimer: I have never read a single page of "1984". Am I alone in thinking that this is a complete waste of time? Why would I go to Harvard to hear learned commentary on a mere novel? Granted, this is a critically acclaimed novel, but it's still just meant to entertain. If I paid the exorbitant Harvard tuition, I would be incensed to be made to study a mere novel.
- deadbeat 16y ago
  >I would be incensed to be made to study a mere novel. Except, possibly,in an English class. Which in fact (not at Harvard) is where I read 1984. A pretty sucky novel in all.
djhworld 16y ago
I'm not really that clued up on the different schools of Harvard, but from the website the course appears to be run from their Government division. So this sort of thing would be suitable for use in an undergraduate politics programme as it gives some of the dry academic theory that places NO emphasis on the human aspect of poverty a bit more life in the form of studying modern literature, or in this case film.
amirmc 16y ago
From the article: "Of course, our undergraduate students will read rigorous academic studies of the urban job market, education and the drug war. But the HBO series does what these texts can't. ... With the freedom of artistic expression, 'The Wire' can be more creative. It can weave together the range of forces that shape the lives of the urban poor." It's not simply commentary on a TV show. The show illustrates points from a wider academic course.
jsz0 16y ago
It's a TV show about real issues. I'm guessing the course focuses on the core issues represented in the show more than the entertainment value. I would compare it to using Greek mythology as a framework for learning about ancient Greek civilization and culture.
- WalterBright 16y ago
  Do you really want the future policymakers of America to base their ideas on hollywood movie scripts?
jakarta 16y ago
I think you should have read the linked article before criticizing the idea. They make the reasons for teaching The Wire quite clear in the article and provide a good argument.
sumeetjain 16y ago
I strongly disagree with your initial reaction (as do most people, it seems), but I upvoted you and am a bit perturbed that you were downvoted so heavily. Nothing in your comment was offensive or silly. You asked good questions respectfully and clearly gave lots of people the impetus to post their own thoughts.
barmstrong 16y ago
You aren't alone. Paying to take a class where you study The Wire (which is an awesome TV show btw) is definitely a waste of time and money.
e40 16y ago
What annoys people is that you haven't seen a single episode but you have an opinion. Gather information, then decide. Not the other way around.

ahi 16y ago

If I paid the exorbitant Harvard tuition and they made me study a romance novel I'd be pissed too. The Wire isn't pulp. It's the television equivalent of literature. The writing is really that good.

kenjackson 16y ago
You really can't fck with the fckin writing on the Wire. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQbsnSVM1zM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQbsnSVM1zM

johnfn 16y ago

Why shouldn't universities study TV shows? Lets make an analogy with books. Most books are, in the end, "just meant to entertain", but it would be ridiculous to argue that universities shouldn't study them. Why? Well, some books go beyond just entertainment into a further realm: commentary on the human situation, raising and questioning of philosophic questions, etc. I think that the Wire fits into the same mold as an excellent book. Saying that it's just to entertain misses the bigger goals that it's trying to accomplish. It has brilliant script writing and direction, and it really raises questions into the areas that it portrays (the drug war, corruption in legal areas, etc) that I had never considered before. (And yes, you should watch it. :) )

andrewvc 16y ago

You're deriding the course based on medium, not message. Perhaps we also shouldn't use a 'common' language like English and revert to being taught in Latin. Additionally, If you'd actually seen The Wire you probably would not be arguing against this course. The Wire isn't just any piece of entertainment, it's the result of David Simon's years of observations as a journalist in Baltimore, a thesis covering his observations of how institutions fail individuals, in particular the black urban poor in Baltimore. While The Wire may be fictional, it's quite pointed in its messages, and as the author says, it weaves together many connected threads into a unified whole in a way many academic texts lack. Lastly, it doesn't just tell you what's going on in a dry, disconnected tone like an academic text. It makes you truly grok and indeed FEEL what's going on. In my view, that definitely elevates this course.

rauljara 16y ago

First: it is a single course, and it does not appear to be a required one. No one is being made to study it. Students are being given the option of studying it. Second: All manner of art is studied in college, from novels, to sculpture, to film. TV is but another genre, and while it an unfortunate history of being a "low art", a lot of recent tv definitely rises to level of a lot of the films that are studied in college today. That being said, I'm a little leery of the context in which the show is being studied. The course is on urban inequality. Even though the wire is very well researched, it's still fiction. If you want to talk about the realities on which the wire is based, why not study those realities directly? Why let an intricately plotted work of fiction serve as your primary window into that world? I'd be fine with showing some scenes from the Wire in a course on urban inequality, but I'd really hate to give students the impression that the Wire is the final authority on what life in Baltimore is like.

andrewce 16y ago
" I'd be fine with showing some scenes from the Wire in a course on urban inequality, but I'd really hate to give students the impression that the Wire is the final authority on what life in Baltimore is like." Hopefully, students will be smart enough to realize that "The Wire" is a work of fiction (as you and others have pointed out). However, the difficult thing about teaching just from research and theory is that it is extremely difficult to gain a concrete understanding without a concrete presentation. When I was going through the teacher education program in college, we read a lot of (what I thought were very compelling) scholarly articles explaining how current practices (regarding instruction, assessment, and so on) were flawed and then proposing better practices. The discussions we had were often of the "Okay, I see what the author is saying" variety, but ended up with very little actionable follow-through. I remember getting in trouble for trying to heed the advice of the research ("I don't care what the research says, we're doing it this way and that's final.") What I am trying to say is that research and statistics are all fine and dandy, but the students at Harvard are mostly white and mostly from reasonably affluent families who live near other reasonably affluent families. Ideally, we could study those realities directly via fieldwork, but that's simply not a possibility for most. So, in lieu of giving these students a completely abstract understanding without any lived experience (even if it is vicarious and fictional), "The Wire" comes in.

wriq 16y ago

Disclaimer: I believe 'The Wire' is the greatest TV series I have ever seen Well it seems to be a class on urban inequality that uses characters from The Wire as examples. The show was critically acclaimed and many of the characters are based off people known by the creators (a Balitmore Police Officer/School Teacher & Baltimore Sun Reporter) "Our seminar was designed for 30 students; four times that many showed up for the first class last week." Using the show to promote a class discussing a real sociological problem seems like a good idea.

tptacek 16y ago

The Wire is based off multiple people's journalism careers in the city of Baltimore. It's fictional, but it's fiction intended to synthesize David Simon's worldview about the failure of institutions (of all kinds) in modern American cities; it's a more effective communicator of that message than his raw reporting would be, and that raw reporting is clearly fair game for a class. If it makes you feel better, check out _ Homicide: A Year on the Killing Streets_ and _ The Corner: A Year in the Life of an Inner-City Neighborhood_ --- both great books, as gripping as The Wire, and used throughout the series as source material. Both totally nonfic.

scott_s 16y ago
I was going to point out both books. The Corner is one of the most soul-crushingly depressing books I've ever read. I could only read a few pages at a time. The knowledge that these were real people made it feel like I was actually watching these people's lives either fall apart around them, or get even worse than they already are.

potatolicious 16y ago

Disclaimer: I have never read a single page of "1984". Am I alone in thinking that this is a complete waste of time? Why would I go to Harvard to hear learned commentary on a mere novel? Granted, this is a critically acclaimed novel, but it's still just meant to entertain. If I paid the exorbitant Harvard tuition, I would be incensed to be made to study a mere novel.

deadbeat 16y ago
>I would be incensed to be made to study a mere novel. Except, possibly,in an English class. Which in fact (not at Harvard) is where I read 1984. A pretty sucky novel in all.

djhworld 16y ago

I'm not really that clued up on the different schools of Harvard, but from the website the course appears to be run from their Government division. So this sort of thing would be suitable for use in an undergraduate politics programme as it gives some of the dry academic theory that places NO emphasis on the human aspect of poverty a bit more life in the form of studying modern literature, or in this case film.

amirmc 16y ago

From the article: "Of course, our undergraduate students will read rigorous academic studies of the urban job market, education and the drug war. But the HBO series does what these texts can't. ... With the freedom of artistic expression, 'The Wire' can be more creative. It can weave together the range of forces that shape the lives of the urban poor." It's not simply commentary on a TV show. The show illustrates points from a wider academic course.

jsz0 16y ago

It's a TV show about real issues. I'm guessing the course focuses on the core issues represented in the show more than the entertainment value. I would compare it to using Greek mythology as a framework for learning about ancient Greek civilization and culture.

WalterBright 16y ago
Do you really want the future policymakers of America to base their ideas on hollywood movie scripts?

jakarta 16y ago

I think you should have read the linked article before criticizing the idea. They make the reasons for teaching The Wire quite clear in the article and provide a good argument.

sumeetjain 16y ago

I strongly disagree with your initial reaction (as do most people, it seems), but I upvoted you and am a bit perturbed that you were downvoted so heavily. Nothing in your comment was offensive or silly. You asked good questions respectfully and clearly gave lots of people the impetus to post their own thoughts.

barmstrong 16y ago

You aren't alone. Paying to take a class where you study The Wire (which is an awesome TV show btw) is definitely a waste of time and money.

e40 16y ago

What annoys people is that you haven't seen a single episode but you have an opinion. Gather information, then decide. Not the other way around.