5 ms·

If you lie down with Oracle you're going to get fleeced.

by mythz 9y ago

wging 9y ago
This is possibly ok, actually. Java 9 and 10 have been released; Java 11, the next long-term-support release, has a release date of September. So this applies if you're on a 5-year-old version of Java and choose to run Java 8 rather than update to 11. http://openjdk.java.net/projects/jdk/11/ http://openjdk.java.net/projects/jdk/11/
- ThePadawan 9y ago
  YMMV but I would be hard pressed to name any company I produced Java-based software for which even ran Java 9.
- LudoA 9y ago
  Java 9 was released end of September 2017... That's less than 1.5 years to migrate all your apps (possible many hundreds) from Java 8 to Java 9. Way too short. In fact, Java 9 is already out of support (since last month). The next viable Java version after Java 8 is Java 11, which is an LTS version. Java 11 will come out around September this year. So in reality, this means organizations have a couple months to migrate everything from Java 8 to Java 11. Laughable.
  - baud147258 9y ago
    In addition to this, Java 9 introduces changes that make the migration non-trivial
  - dwaite 9y ago
    This is all accurate. However, it is not like Java 9 was being developed in private, and I doubt many shops even started to look at support once it was RTM. Java shops are used to being able to stay on old releases for near-forever, but they need to adapt to Oracle's business model being to charge for Java support. It was Sun's monetization model for Java too; they just sucked at it.
pron 9y ago
What other runtime offers free LTS? Does Python? Does Node? Go? Erlang? Haskell? How is it getting fleeced to be able to buy (instead of get for free) something that others don't offer at all?
- gargravarr 9y ago
  Er, hate to break it to you, but some of the ones you list actually do offer free LTS releases, e.g. Node: https://nodejs.org/en/download/ https://nodejs.org/en/download/
  - pron 9y ago
    You're right, that's very generous. But as they don't maintain the VM and they don't have a big standard library, it's probably an order of magnitude cheaper than maintaining the JDK.
    - mythz 9y ago
      I can't think of any other popular language that requires payment for security updates. Node supports an LTS version, Python support for 2.7 extends to 2020 [1] despite Python 3 being released in 2008, Microsoft still provides support for .NET 3.5 Framework released in 2007. Java 9 was released in July, 2017 that's nowhere near sufficient time to force an upgrade. This is just Oracle being Oracle and finding another way to fleece their Customers, many of which were Customers of Sun who would never pull a move with such contempt like this. [1] https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0373/ https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0373/
      - gargravarr 9y ago
        Ubuntu even provide an entire OS supported with security updates free of charge for five years. Granted, they have considerably more developers and commercial support from Canonical, but most of these languages have some kind of sponsorship deal in the background. Definitely Oracle being Oracle.
  - 9y ago

If you lie down with Oracle you're going to get fleeced.

by mythz 9y ago

If you lie down with Oracle you're going to get fleeced.

This is possibly ok, actually. Java 9 and 10 have been released; Java 11, the next long-term-support release, has a release date of September. So this applies if you're on a 5-year-old version of Java and choose to run Java 8 rather than update to 11. http://openjdk.java.net/projects/jdk/11/ http://openjdk.java.net/projects/jdk/11/

ThePadawan 9y ago
YMMV but I would be hard pressed to name any company I produced Java-based software for which even ran Java 9.
LudoA 9y ago
Java 9 was released end of September 2017... That's less than 1.5 years to migrate all your apps (possible many hundreds) from Java 8 to Java 9. Way too short. In fact, Java 9 is already out of support (since last month). The next viable Java version after Java 8 is Java 11, which is an LTS version. Java 11 will come out around September this year. So in reality, this means organizations have a couple months to migrate everything from Java 8 to Java 11. Laughable.
- baud147258 9y ago
  In addition to this, Java 9 introduces changes that make the migration non-trivial
- dwaite 9y ago
  This is all accurate. However, it is not like Java 9 was being developed in private, and I doubt many shops even started to look at support once it was RTM. Java shops are used to being able to stay on old releases for near-forever, but they need to adapt to Oracle's business model being to charge for Java support. It was Sun's monetization model for Java too; they just sucked at it.

pron 9y ago

What other runtime offers free LTS? Does Python? Does Node? Go? Erlang? Haskell? How is it getting fleeced to be able to buy (instead of get for free) something that others don't offer at all?

gargravarr 9y ago
Er, hate to break it to you, but some of the ones you list actually do offer free LTS releases, e.g. Node: https://nodejs.org/en/download/ https://nodejs.org/en/download/
- pron 9y ago
  You're right, that's very generous. But as they don't maintain the VM and they don't have a big standard library, it's probably an order of magnitude cheaper than maintaining the JDK.
  - mythz 9y ago
    I can't think of any other popular language that requires payment for security updates. Node supports an LTS version, Python support for 2.7 extends to 2020 [1] despite Python 3 being released in 2008, Microsoft still provides support for .NET 3.5 Framework released in 2007. Java 9 was released in July, 2017 that's nowhere near sufficient time to force an upgrade. This is just Oracle being Oracle and finding another way to fleece their Customers, many of which were Customers of Sun who would never pull a move with such contempt like this. [1] https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0373/ https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0373/
    - gargravarr 9y ago
      Ubuntu even provide an entire OS supported with security updates free of charge for five years. Granted, they have considerably more developers and commercial support from Canonical, but most of these languages have some kind of sponsorship deal in the background. Definitely Oracle being Oracle.
- 9y ago