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The chart is really misleading. It's labeled: "Here are the average 2015 prices for a vaginal birth, not including costs for care before and after giving birth

The chart is really misleading. It's labeled: "Here are the average 2015 prices for a vaginal birth, not including costs for care before and after giving birth" but for the UK it lists the price of the royal baby's fancy birth. A normal birth in the UK is free! My daughter was born by C-section in the UK. Mum and baby stayed in the hospital for a few days to recover from the C-section. This would have been completely free but they would have had to share a room with 3 other mums and newborns. That's not so nice so we opted to pay for a private room. The cost for a private room in a hospital in the UK was the equivalent of $100 per night! In a HOSPITAL! Coming from the US that blew my mind.

hlidotbe 8y ago
Well that's kind of the point of the article, comparing an average birth in the US vs an over-the-top one in the UK
dogma1138 8y ago
Cost out of pocket and actual costs aren’t the same thing. The overall health care is likely cheaper but you do pay for it your entire adult life. So while they charged you $100 during birth (btw that’s extremely cheap a private room in a central London hospital without insurance copay is a few £100’s a night) you pay for that room from your first paycheck to the last.
- mcv 8y ago
  But you also do that in the US, you just don't benefit from it until you are 65. The US does have socialised medicine: Medicare, and it costs as much as the health care systems of other countries, only it takes care of only a small part of the population, whereas in other countries it takes care of everybody.
  - isostatic 8y ago
    Medicare costs the US about the same as the NHS costs the UK -- £1500 per citizen. That's not per medicare citizen, that's per citizen. The NHS covers everyone (although if you want fancier healthcare you can pay and go private).
- andyjohnson0 8y ago
  > you pay for that room from your first paycheck to the last No. In the UK you pay into a fund that pays for everyone, not just yourself.
  - kgwgk 8y ago
    National Insurance represents less than 20% of NHS funding. But I guess you're right if you consider general taxation as contributing into the HM Treasury fund.
- mathw 8y ago
  Yes we do, and that's fantastic, because that's also paying for my sister's cancer treatment, my Mum's thyroid medication, the drugs Dad had to clear up a fungal infection in his toenails, the surgery my friend had to reassemble his ankle after he smashed it up slipping down a grassy slope...
  - dogma1138 8y ago
    Don’t know without my ~£3000 a year insurance I’ll have better luck with pubmed than with the NHS unless I’m bleeding out of 2 or more holes with one of them not being native to my body. The only problem I have with it is that unlike say Germany I have no option to go completely private. I
- pjc50 8y ago
  > you pay for that room from your first paycheck to the last. As you do in the US .. it's just that the section of taxes you pay for it is generally much cheaper than health insurance costs.
- DanBC 8y ago
  The American government spends more on healthcare than the UK government. That feels like a worse situation: you pay for it all your adult life, but you have to pay again when you need it.
  - lsc 8y ago
    I'd expect anything dominated by skilled labor cost to be about twice as expensive in the US than in the UK... I mean, I don't know if doctor pay scales like SWE pay, but as far as I can tell, London pays software engineer types half of the US national average (which is rather less than what silicon valley pays.) (of course, I think we'd be better off in the states if we expanded medicare to everyone, giving everyone a baseline level of insurance... but I'd also expect it to be more expensive here than in the UK, just 'cause the payscales here are... pretty different.)
    - DanBC 8y ago
      Yes. Here's the Agenda for Change pay scales, which seem relevant to a story about maternity care (which is usually going to be midwife led). http://www.nhsemployers.org/your-workforce/pay-and-reward/agenda-for-change/pay-scales/annual http://www.nhsemployers.org/your-workforce/pay-and-reward/ag... Midwives are going to be band 5, so £22,128 to £28,746. I think US midwives are getting about $100,000, so there's a considerable difference.
      - throwaway84742 8y ago
        So basically the glorious NHS is possible because doctors aren’t paid a living wage? I seriously doubt one can afford to buy a house with that kind of income.
        lsc 8y ago
        A SWE in London makes like the equivalent of like USD$65K or something. I think that wages are just much lower across the board for skilled labor once you leave the major cities in the USA. (I'm curious how this shakes out on the low end, and if it's just that in the USA, skilled labor captures more of the total labor compensation than in the UK, 'cause I didn't think our per-capita gdp was that far off. In silicon valley, unskilled labor pays around USD$15/hr. the rest of the country it's closer to USD$8/hr. There are a lot of people who try to live on that. What would the equivalent be in London?)
- lostlogin 8y ago
  > you pay for that doom from your first paycheck to the last And you get it even if you have no pay cheque.
- cmsj 8y ago
  So do Americans. Public health spending per capita is higher in the US than it is in the UK.
andyjohnson0 8y ago
Same story with both of my children. C-section both times so my partner stayed in hospital for a few days. With the first one we opted to pay for a single room for a couple of nights, but didn't bother the second time. Total cost for both births was less than £200, and that was just for the single room. The idea that people have to pay huge amounts of money for a basic human need like safe childbirth is very troubling.
- isostatic 8y ago
  My first child spent the first 3 days in hospital (with mother), cost me a fortune in petrol and parking -- possibly as high as £20 Second child was in and out in 16 hours, and it was overnight, parking was free at that hospital, so only cost the petrol, about £1?
  - Jarb 8y ago
    Don't know whether to laugh or cry that 20 pounds is considered a fortune for parking and gas. Depending on the area, you could easily blow through that in an afternoon over here. T_T
    - isostatic 8y ago
      Current parking charges at Bolton are £4 for 24 hours (they were lower in 2012). 4 trips about 15 mile round trip was about £2 each at that time. There's a lot of complaining about the fact it costs as much as a cup of coffee to go and visit people in hospital. Those with chronic conditions tend to get free parking (at least where I live now in Cheshire).
weavie 8y ago
My daughter was born premature. Mum was in hospital for a week prior and post birth (in her own room). I was given a room for the week next to the hospital. Then when daughter was born she was in hospital for four months of intensive care - in conversation with a doctor he remarked that the cost to the NHS for this would have been about £125k. Coming close to release time we were given a room in the ward so we could be with our baby 24 hours. Cost to us for the whole thing - £0. We were even given a pass so we could get free parking throughout. The one downside to the whole thing, when it came to crunch time there was no space in the nearest neonatal ward, so we had to be rushed in an ambulance the the nearest one that did have space. About 200 miles away, so we weren't able to go home for a couple of months until baby was stable enough to be transferred closer. It was tough, but I will be forever grateful to the NHS for the amazing effort that everyone involved happily contributed.
tomclive 8y ago
Here in Scotland when my son was born, he needed to stay in hospital for 10 days for what turned out to be benign myclonic jerks in his sleep. The midwives gave my wife her own room and even set up a camp-bed for me. They gave me tea and toast in the morning joking that they weren't sure they should do, but there was enough to spare. We didn't need to pay anything and both being on paid parental leave took any financial pressure off so we were able to concentrate on the baby.
- gadders 8y ago
  We had a similar experience, but without the tea and toast :-) The only thing I would say is that a good 90% of hospital food is appalling, though. That's the main blot on the experience.
  - adwww 8y ago
    Similar experience here - one thing I noticed, the yogurt pot that came with every single meal had a mis-matched lid and side label. They were literally the 'seconds' rejected from the consumer market. No pudding for you if you happen to be allergic to one of the unknown possible flavours...!
ThatHNGuy 8y ago
in Italy is free too
kgwgk 8y ago
How is the chart misleading when it is the supporting evidence in an article titled “Kate Middleton’s ‘luxury’ birth cost less than the average U.S. birth”?
JorgeGT 8y ago
Yes, the chart is misleading, giving birth in Spain is free as well, you may just pay the cost of the parking and whatever you take from the vending machine while you're waiting. I believe the chart refers to private hospital births where you get to have a room for yourself, etc.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
onetimemanytime 8y ago
A normal birth in the UK is free! UK doctors don't work for free, and neither do nurses. Not to mention equipment and buildings. You're taxed for it.
- DanBC 8y ago
  People obviously mean "free at the point of delivery, available to all regardless of ability to pay". Also, the US government pays more per capita on healthcare than the UK governments for a system that isn't free at the point of delivery. https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthcaresystem/articles/howdoesukhealthcarespendingcompareinternationally/2016-11-01 https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthan...
- petercooper 8y ago
  Absolutely, but what the British pay in taxes for healthcare is less than what the equivalent American pays in both taxes and insurance.
jinushaun 8y ago
It’s $180 per night for a private room in a New York hospital.
thunderbong 8y ago
This seriously is a 'First World problem'. Considering how hugely complex and difficult a child birth is, and considering that there are professional doctors and trained nurses available for free, the complaint about the cost of a private room because what is given for free was 'not so nice', is, to my mind, seriously taking things for granted.
- foreigner 8y ago
  You read my post backwards. I wasn't complaining about the cost of the private room, I was marveling at how cheap it was!

hlidotbe 8y ago

Well that's kind of the point of the article, comparing an average birth in the US vs an over-the-top one in the UK

dogma1138 8y ago

Cost out of pocket and actual costs aren’t the same thing. The overall health care is likely cheaper but you do pay for it your entire adult life. So while they charged you $100 during birth (btw that’s extremely cheap a private room in a central London hospital without insurance copay is a few £100’s a night) you pay for that room from your first paycheck to the last.

mcv 8y ago
But you also do that in the US, you just don't benefit from it until you are 65. The US does have socialised medicine: Medicare, and it costs as much as the health care systems of other countries, only it takes care of only a small part of the population, whereas in other countries it takes care of everybody.
- isostatic 8y ago
  Medicare costs the US about the same as the NHS costs the UK -- £1500 per citizen. That's not per medicare citizen, that's per citizen. The NHS covers everyone (although if you want fancier healthcare you can pay and go private).
andyjohnson0 8y ago
> you pay for that room from your first paycheck to the last No. In the UK you pay into a fund that pays for everyone, not just yourself.
- kgwgk 8y ago
  National Insurance represents less than 20% of NHS funding. But I guess you're right if you consider general taxation as contributing into the HM Treasury fund.
mathw 8y ago
Yes we do, and that's fantastic, because that's also paying for my sister's cancer treatment, my Mum's thyroid medication, the drugs Dad had to clear up a fungal infection in his toenails, the surgery my friend had to reassemble his ankle after he smashed it up slipping down a grassy slope...
- dogma1138 8y ago
  Don’t know without my ~£3000 a year insurance I’ll have better luck with pubmed than with the NHS unless I’m bleeding out of 2 or more holes with one of them not being native to my body. The only problem I have with it is that unlike say Germany I have no option to go completely private. I
pjc50 8y ago
> you pay for that room from your first paycheck to the last. As you do in the US .. it's just that the section of taxes you pay for it is generally much cheaper than health insurance costs.
DanBC 8y ago
The American government spends more on healthcare than the UK government. That feels like a worse situation: you pay for it all your adult life, but you have to pay again when you need it.
- lsc 8y ago
  I'd expect anything dominated by skilled labor cost to be about twice as expensive in the US than in the UK... I mean, I don't know if doctor pay scales like SWE pay, but as far as I can tell, London pays software engineer types half of the US national average (which is rather less than what silicon valley pays.) (of course, I think we'd be better off in the states if we expanded medicare to everyone, giving everyone a baseline level of insurance... but I'd also expect it to be more expensive here than in the UK, just 'cause the payscales here are... pretty different.)
  - DanBC 8y ago
    Yes. Here's the Agenda for Change pay scales, which seem relevant to a story about maternity care (which is usually going to be midwife led). http://www.nhsemployers.org/your-workforce/pay-and-reward/agenda-for-change/pay-scales/annual http://www.nhsemployers.org/your-workforce/pay-and-reward/ag... Midwives are going to be band 5, so £22,128 to £28,746. I think US midwives are getting about $100,000, so there's a considerable difference.
    - throwaway84742 8y ago
      So basically the glorious NHS is possible because doctors aren’t paid a living wage? I seriously doubt one can afford to buy a house with that kind of income.
      - lsc 8y ago
        A SWE in London makes like the equivalent of like USD$65K or something. I think that wages are just much lower across the board for skilled labor once you leave the major cities in the USA. (I'm curious how this shakes out on the low end, and if it's just that in the USA, skilled labor captures more of the total labor compensation than in the UK, 'cause I didn't think our per-capita gdp was that far off. In silicon valley, unskilled labor pays around USD$15/hr. the rest of the country it's closer to USD$8/hr. There are a lot of people who try to live on that. What would the equivalent be in London?)
lostlogin 8y ago
> you pay for that doom from your first paycheck to the last And you get it even if you have no pay cheque.
cmsj 8y ago
So do Americans. Public health spending per capita is higher in the US than it is in the UK.

andyjohnson0 8y ago

Same story with both of my children. C-section both times so my partner stayed in hospital for a few days. With the first one we opted to pay for a single room for a couple of nights, but didn't bother the second time. Total cost for both births was less than £200, and that was just for the single room. The idea that people have to pay huge amounts of money for a basic human need like safe childbirth is very troubling.

isostatic 8y ago
My first child spent the first 3 days in hospital (with mother), cost me a fortune in petrol and parking -- possibly as high as £20 Second child was in and out in 16 hours, and it was overnight, parking was free at that hospital, so only cost the petrol, about £1?
- Jarb 8y ago
  Don't know whether to laugh or cry that 20 pounds is considered a fortune for parking and gas. Depending on the area, you could easily blow through that in an afternoon over here. T_T
  - isostatic 8y ago
    Current parking charges at Bolton are £4 for 24 hours (they were lower in 2012). 4 trips about 15 mile round trip was about £2 each at that time. There's a lot of complaining about the fact it costs as much as a cup of coffee to go and visit people in hospital. Those with chronic conditions tend to get free parking (at least where I live now in Cheshire).

weavie 8y ago

My daughter was born premature. Mum was in hospital for a week prior and post birth (in her own room). I was given a room for the week next to the hospital. Then when daughter was born she was in hospital for four months of intensive care - in conversation with a doctor he remarked that the cost to the NHS for this would have been about £125k. Coming close to release time we were given a room in the ward so we could be with our baby 24 hours. Cost to us for the whole thing - £0. We were even given a pass so we could get free parking throughout. The one downside to the whole thing, when it came to crunch time there was no space in the nearest neonatal ward, so we had to be rushed in an ambulance the the nearest one that did have space. About 200 miles away, so we weren't able to go home for a couple of months until baby was stable enough to be transferred closer. It was tough, but I will be forever grateful to the NHS for the amazing effort that everyone involved happily contributed.

tomclive 8y ago

Here in Scotland when my son was born, he needed to stay in hospital for 10 days for what turned out to be benign myclonic jerks in his sleep. The midwives gave my wife her own room and even set up a camp-bed for me. They gave me tea and toast in the morning joking that they weren't sure they should do, but there was enough to spare. We didn't need to pay anything and both being on paid parental leave took any financial pressure off so we were able to concentrate on the baby.

gadders 8y ago
We had a similar experience, but without the tea and toast :-) The only thing I would say is that a good 90% of hospital food is appalling, though. That's the main blot on the experience.
- adwww 8y ago
  Similar experience here - one thing I noticed, the yogurt pot that came with every single meal had a mis-matched lid and side label. They were literally the 'seconds' rejected from the consumer market. No pudding for you if you happen to be allergic to one of the unknown possible flavours...!

ThatHNGuy 8y ago

in Italy is free too

kgwgk 8y ago

How is the chart misleading when it is the supporting evidence in an article titled “Kate Middleton’s ‘luxury’ birth cost less than the average U.S. birth”?

JorgeGT 8y ago

Yes, the chart is misleading, giving birth in Spain is free as well, you may just pay the cost of the parking and whatever you take from the vending machine while you're waiting. I believe the chart refers to private hospital births where you get to have a room for yourself, etc.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

onetimemanytime 8y ago

A normal birth in the UK is free! UK doctors don't work for free, and neither do nurses. Not to mention equipment and buildings. You're taxed for it.

DanBC 8y ago
People obviously mean "free at the point of delivery, available to all regardless of ability to pay". Also, the US government pays more per capita on healthcare than the UK governments for a system that isn't free at the point of delivery. https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthcaresystem/articles/howdoesukhealthcarespendingcompareinternationally/2016-11-01 https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthan...
petercooper 8y ago
Absolutely, but what the British pay in taxes for healthcare is less than what the equivalent American pays in both taxes and insurance.

jinushaun 8y ago

It’s $180 per night for a private room in a New York hospital.

thunderbong 8y ago

This seriously is a 'First World problem'. Considering how hugely complex and difficult a child birth is, and considering that there are professional doctors and trained nurses available for free, the complaint about the cost of a private room because what is given for free was 'not so nice', is, to my mind, seriously taking things for granted.

foreigner 8y ago
You read my post backwards. I wasn't complaining about the cost of the private room, I was marveling at how cheap it was!