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Which shows that a high infant mortality rate is insufficient to extinct a species, not that home birth is safe.

rdiddly 9y ago
That why it says "not to mention." It's an additional/supplemental point on top of the main one about my child's birth, which shows that at least that one home birth was safe. And cheap.
- eurleif 9y ago
  No, one wasn't safe. One was risky, but luckily happened to end all right. Just like driving drunk is unsafe even if you make it home in one piece. Safety is statistical, not anecdotal. Here are the statistics: http://www.skepticalob.com/2014/01/homebirth-midwives-reveal-death-rate-450-higher-than-hospital-birth-announce-that-it-shows-homebirth-is-safe.html http://www.skepticalob.com/2014/01/homebirth-midwives-reveal...
- Angostura 9y ago
  In my youth once changed a ceiling light standing on a swivel office chair that was on a desk. I suffered no injuries. That doesn't mean it was safe.
  - rdiddly 9y ago
    We saw a doctor beforehand who ruled out all the usual risk factors. In fact it was safe.
    - eurleif 9y ago
      No. Are you willfully ignoring the statistics? The death rate for low risk births is 320% higher. http://www.skepticalob.com/2014/01/homebirth-midwives-reveal-death-rate-450-higher-than-hospital-birth-announce-that-it-shows-homebirth-is-safe.html http://www.skepticalob.com/2014/01/homebirth-midwives-reveal...
mcv 9y ago
Home birth doesn't have to be unsafe as long as you have well-trained mid-people and easy access to a hospital in case of complications. An uncomplicated birth doesn't need a hospital, and most births in Netherland still happen at home. It works fine if your system is designed to allow it.
- eurleif 9y ago
  Home birth is not safe. In the Netherlands, as elsewhere, it causes deaths: http://www.skepticalob.com/2010/07/netherlands-homebirth-and-high.html http://www.skepticalob.com/2010/07/netherlands-homebirth-and... And the majority of Dutch births are not home births. Due to the safety issues, the rate has fallen to only 13%: http://www.skepticalob.com/2017/02/dutch-homebirth-rate-continues-to-plummet-now-only-13.html http://www.skepticalob.com/2017/02/dutch-homebirth-rate-cont...
  - mcv 9y ago
    I stand corrected. Although if birth-related mortality is rising while home births are dropping, doesn't that suggest there's something else going on? The relatively high age of Dutch mothers may also be a factor (I believe the average age at which women have their first child is around 30). Having read a bit more about the issue, it appears the jury is still out.
    - eurleif 9y ago
      >Although if birth-related mortality is rising while home births are dropping, doesn't that suggest there's something else going on? Huh, where do you see mortality rising? The link refers to a decrease: "Historical data show that 7-day (28-day) mortality declined from 4.25 (5.35) deaths per 1,000 births in 1980–1985 to 2.42 (3.18) deaths in 2005-2009" >Having read a bit more about the issue, it appears the jury is still out. I don't know how you can think that. Every statistical comparison shows home births kill babies. Unfortunately, there are still people who claim otherwise, but none of them have data to support their claims.
- jeroen 9y ago

That why it says "not to mention." It's an additional/supplemental point on top of the main one about my child's birth, which shows that at least that one home birth was safe. And cheap.

eurleif 9y ago
No, one wasn't safe. One was risky, but luckily happened to end all right. Just like driving drunk is unsafe even if you make it home in one piece. Safety is statistical, not anecdotal. Here are the statistics: http://www.skepticalob.com/2014/01/homebirth-midwives-reveal-death-rate-450-higher-than-hospital-birth-announce-that-it-shows-homebirth-is-safe.html http://www.skepticalob.com/2014/01/homebirth-midwives-reveal...
Angostura 9y ago
In my youth once changed a ceiling light standing on a swivel office chair that was on a desk. I suffered no injuries. That doesn't mean it was safe.
- rdiddly 9y ago
  We saw a doctor beforehand who ruled out all the usual risk factors. In fact it was safe.
  - eurleif 9y ago
    No. Are you willfully ignoring the statistics? The death rate for low risk births is 320% higher. http://www.skepticalob.com/2014/01/homebirth-midwives-reveal-death-rate-450-higher-than-hospital-birth-announce-that-it-shows-homebirth-is-safe.html http://www.skepticalob.com/2014/01/homebirth-midwives-reveal...

mcv 9y ago

Home birth doesn't have to be unsafe as long as you have well-trained mid-people and easy access to a hospital in case of complications. An uncomplicated birth doesn't need a hospital, and most births in Netherland still happen at home. It works fine if your system is designed to allow it.

eurleif 9y ago
Home birth is not safe. In the Netherlands, as elsewhere, it causes deaths: http://www.skepticalob.com/2010/07/netherlands-homebirth-and-high.html http://www.skepticalob.com/2010/07/netherlands-homebirth-and... And the majority of Dutch births are not home births. Due to the safety issues, the rate has fallen to only 13%: http://www.skepticalob.com/2017/02/dutch-homebirth-rate-continues-to-plummet-now-only-13.html http://www.skepticalob.com/2017/02/dutch-homebirth-rate-cont...
- mcv 9y ago
  I stand corrected. Although if birth-related mortality is rising while home births are dropping, doesn't that suggest there's something else going on? The relatively high age of Dutch mothers may also be a factor (I believe the average age at which women have their first child is around 30). Having read a bit more about the issue, it appears the jury is still out.
  - eurleif 9y ago
    >Although if birth-related mortality is rising while home births are dropping, doesn't that suggest there's something else going on? Huh, where do you see mortality rising? The link refers to a decrease: "Historical data show that 7-day (28-day) mortality declined from 4.25 (5.35) deaths per 1,000 births in 1980–1985 to 2.42 (3.18) deaths in 2005-2009" >Having read a bit more about the issue, it appears the jury is still out. I don't know how you can think that. Every statistical comparison shows home births kill babies. Unfortunately, there are still people who claim otherwise, but none of them have data to support their claims.
jeroen 9y ago