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> I think this is nonsense and should be called out when it comes up. Don't be such a cultural imperialist. You think you're "doing the right thing" -- but is

> I think this is nonsense and should be called out when it comes up. Don't be such a cultural imperialist. You think you're "doing the right thing" -- but isn't it "wrong" to assume your culture's current (in flux) definition of culturally "progressive" values is actually a moral right? Come to China and see what things are like. Then maybe you can feel entitled to dictate what to call out. You think your culture is morally supremacist, but are you so sure you are so right? Maybe your way is not the only "right" way -- maybe you can learn from other cultures. But you don't be open to doing that while you are so sure of your own moral supremacism. And being so certain, so full of passionate intensity of your own righteousness -- well that's just likely to make you less open to correction and learning, and more likely to be wrong, isn't it? If your culture is so adept at "equality" (even "gender equality") then why are your genders ( races / politics ) so divided? In light of the actual state of things, rather than how you prefer to see them ( through a culturally imperialist lens of your own moral supremacism ) -- isn't it more likely that divisions have been artificially and deliberately inflamed, to keep you all fighting each other, to distract you from placing the blame on those in power? To make you all easier to control, in other words. The best slaves are the ones who think they are free. "Progressive liberal values" has been a great way to divide people into groups to better distract and control them, and get them to channel their (perhaps otherwise constructively directed) emotions, into useless vitriol and conflict. Also stressed out combat-mode people purchase more, and think less about it. So, a harmful way to bolster consumer economy. Also it's incorrect to say "gender equality" is not an issue "in Asia". It's just you don't understand how it is. In China, Mao made women and men equal before feminism "liberated" Western women. But of course, "the West got there first" and better -- Oldest fake narrative in the book, buddy.

dang 8y ago
I'm sure you have some good points in there but could you please not cross into flamewar? It's against the rules here, because it destroys thoughtful discussion and poisons the community. If you'd read https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and follow them, we'd appreciate it. Don't miss this one: Comments should get more civil and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive.
- objectcreate 8y ago
  OK. I guess I should stay away from commenting here. Because I'm just a flamethrower it seems. This is not the right forum for me.
wpietri 8y ago
It's true that in the socialist era, Mao and others really pushed for progress in gender equality. To their great credit! But beginning with pro-market reforms, a lot of that progress has been lost: https://cpianalysis.org/2017/10/23/the-struggle-for-gender-equality-in-xis-new-era/ https://cpianalysis.org/2017/10/23/the-struggle-for-gender-e... I also think the rest of your critique doesn't really hold together. You seem to be playing both sides of your ambivalence on gender equality. And for somebody opposed to one culture criticizing another, you seem awfully willing to be very vigorous in criticizing another culture.
- bmarkovic 8y ago
  Not just in China but in post-socialist Europe as well. Male chauvinism goes hand in hand with nationalist chauvinism and is the one of the first things to resurface back into the social norm as part of post-socialist social reform in all these countries. Still, in the post-post-socialism (i.e. when the society recovered from the right-wing dominance of transition years) many of these returned to these values and I bet if one would to do an earnest comparison (which Western media rarely want, too much bias) they'd probably be able to count significantly more females in high politics, enterprise management and even entrepreneurship than in places like the USA, Ireland, Switzerland or other more conservative western countries. In some of those countries, like Croatia and Serbia (even if they'd hate to admit it), even the right has been pushed, partly by inherited social norms and partly by strong female presence in the left to de-masculinise as well. Hence the female right-wing president in Croatia and the far-right lesbian prime minister in Serbia.
laurieg 8y ago
How is calling out descrimination cultural imperialism? I don't think we should be selecting engineers, tax accountants and so on based on their gender, so I call it out when I see it. The rest of your post makes a lot of assumptions about views and my background, but I certainly didn't say anything about them my comment.

dang 8y ago

I'm sure you have some good points in there but could you please not cross into flamewar? It's against the rules here, because it destroys thoughtful discussion and poisons the community. If you'd read https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and follow them, we'd appreciate it. Don't miss this one: Comments should get more civil and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive.

objectcreate 8y ago
OK. I guess I should stay away from commenting here. Because I'm just a flamethrower it seems. This is not the right forum for me.

wpietri 8y ago

It's true that in the socialist era, Mao and others really pushed for progress in gender equality. To their great credit! But beginning with pro-market reforms, a lot of that progress has been lost: https://cpianalysis.org/2017/10/23/the-struggle-for-gender-equality-in-xis-new-era/ https://cpianalysis.org/2017/10/23/the-struggle-for-gender-e... I also think the rest of your critique doesn't really hold together. You seem to be playing both sides of your ambivalence on gender equality. And for somebody opposed to one culture criticizing another, you seem awfully willing to be very vigorous in criticizing another culture.

bmarkovic 8y ago
Not just in China but in post-socialist Europe as well. Male chauvinism goes hand in hand with nationalist chauvinism and is the one of the first things to resurface back into the social norm as part of post-socialist social reform in all these countries. Still, in the post-post-socialism (i.e. when the society recovered from the right-wing dominance of transition years) many of these returned to these values and I bet if one would to do an earnest comparison (which Western media rarely want, too much bias) they'd probably be able to count significantly more females in high politics, enterprise management and even entrepreneurship than in places like the USA, Ireland, Switzerland or other more conservative western countries. In some of those countries, like Croatia and Serbia (even if they'd hate to admit it), even the right has been pushed, partly by inherited social norms and partly by strong female presence in the left to de-masculinise as well. Hence the female right-wing president in Croatia and the far-right lesbian prime minister in Serbia.

laurieg 8y ago

How is calling out descrimination cultural imperialism? I don't think we should be selecting engineers, tax accountants and so on based on their gender, so I call it out when I see it. The rest of your post makes a lot of assumptions about views and my background, but I certainly didn't say anything about them my comment.