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Okay lets just say bitcoin is a scam. What do we do about it? What can we do about it? Do we shut down the open source project? Do we make the algorithms illeg

Okay lets just say bitcoin is a scam. What do we do about it? What can we do about it? Do we shut down the open source project? Do we make the algorithms illegal and have a repeat of the fight of whether or not mathematics and programming is free speech? Without saying anything to support or not support bitcoin, the cat's out of the bag. There will now always be bitcoin as long as there are anonymous miners willing to keep the network running and it will always have value even if it's not optimized perfectly. Even if that value can only be found on the black market. What I'm saying is bitcoin and cryptocurrencies are here to stay because the knowledge of how to make them and run them is becoming saturated and anyone can just fork the code. So even if it doesn't play by the rules we've come to know, we better get used to it...

bb88 8y ago
> Do we shut down the open source project? Do we make the algorithms illegal and have a repeat of the fight of whether or not mathematics and programming is free speech? Actually, it's quite simple. The SEC and IRS could go after the exchanges. If BTC can't be converted to US Dollars BTC is worthless on its face. BTC only has value if it can be exchanged to another currency.
- koonsolo 8y ago
  Hi, maybe you noticed already, but the world is bigger than US alone.
  - bb88 8y ago
    So your snark aside, China and India have already banned BTC [1] [2]. That's over a third of the world [3] right there. [1] http://www.scmp.com/news/china/economy/article/2132119/beijing-bans-bitcoin-when-did-it-all-go-wrong-cryptocurrencies http://www.scmp.com/news/china/economy/article/2132119/beiji... [2] https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2018/04/05/good-luck-buying-bitcoin-in-india-as-central-banker-bans/#3021d8ec2996 https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2018/04/05/good-luck-... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population#/media/File:World_population_percentage.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population#/media/File:W...
    - koonsolo 8y ago
      Sorry for the snark, it was a rough morning (which is no excuse). The BTC ban in China needs to be nuanced: 'While private parties can hold and trade bitcoins in China, regulation prohibits financial firms like banks from doing the same.' see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_bitcoin_by_country_or_territory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_bitcoin_by_country... India also doesn't seem to have a law in place to really ban it. Wikipedia has a nice map that shows only a few small states really banned bitcoin: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_bitcoin_by_country_or_territory#/media/File:Legal_status_of_bitcoin.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_bitcoin_by_country... I support the current stance of the US government on cryptocurrencies, because I think it's a sane way to approach this new technology, although there is a lot of speculation going on. I assume EU is going to have the same point of view more or less.
      - bb88 8y ago
        I'm quoting this from one of the articles I linked above in the gp: "With the announcement that it plans to block all websites related to cryptocurrency trading and initial coin offerings – including foreign platforms – Beijing has left no one in any doubt of its position on the highly volatile commodity." The Economic Times of India talks about banking regulations surrounding bitcoin [1]: "RBI, while announcing its first bi-monthly monetary policy for the FY 2018-19, has announced that any entity regulated by them such as banks, wallets etc. shall not deal with or provide services to any individual or business entities for buying or selling of cryptocurrency such as bitcoins." If you're going to invest in BTC, you're most likely going to do it through your bank account. Banning banks from working with crytocurrency exchanges is a big step in that direction because it severely impacts your ability to participate in those exchanges. And that gets me back to the original point. A country just needs to attack the exchanges. BTC is only worth something if you can exchange it for something else. [1] https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/wealth/personal-finance-news/your-bank-will-not-allow-you-to-buy-bitcoins-anymore/articleshow/63627123.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/wealth/personal-finance...
        8y ago
- isaiahg 8y ago
  Okay lets do that. How do they enforce it? Many of the biggest exchanges are not in the US. There are some exchanges that are decentralized themselves and can't be taken down easily. Many countries are embracing cryptocurrencies like Germany, South Korea, Japan, and will offer safe havens for exchanges. Of course cryptocurrency can always go underground and hid their traffic. Technically you could even run a cryptocurrency network through email. Technology has and will always move faster than governments. On another front, it might be hard to galvanize support to ban cryptocurrency when many of the movers and shakers have embraced it. IBM is the largest tech provider to the financial sector and is working on more than 400 blockchain projects and runs its own cross border payment system that may already process 60% of all cross-border payments in the South Pacific using the Lumen crypto. Word is also going around the JPMorgan might start up bitcoin futures trading soon. It seems like to me that the old world and gatekeepers have already decided that this is the way the world is moving.
  - bb88 8y ago
    > Okay lets do that. How do they enforce it? There are some exchanges that are decentralized themselves and can't be taken down easily. So your argument is "You can make it illegal all you want, but we'll just move it underground and it will never die." Arguments like that do little to win over regulators. The last time I checked in the US, cryptocurrency fell within the jurisdiction of the CFTC, IRS, SEC, and FinCEN agencies. Three of those agencies have already made policies regarding cryptocurrencies without needing an act of congress. > On another front, it might be hard to galvanize support to ban cryptocurrency when many of the movers and shakers have embraced it. Again, this argument is not compelling enough. Popular things once done by people or companies have been made illegal time and time again. Any argument that allows companies to profit off illegal activities (money laundering comes to mind) in a legal way without regulation, is DOA.

bb88 8y ago

> Do we shut down the open source project? Do we make the algorithms illegal and have a repeat of the fight of whether or not mathematics and programming is free speech? Actually, it's quite simple. The SEC and IRS could go after the exchanges. If BTC can't be converted to US Dollars BTC is worthless on its face. BTC only has value if it can be exchanged to another currency.

koonsolo 8y ago
Hi, maybe you noticed already, but the world is bigger than US alone.
- bb88 8y ago
  So your snark aside, China and India have already banned BTC [1] [2]. That's over a third of the world [3] right there. [1] http://www.scmp.com/news/china/economy/article/2132119/beijing-bans-bitcoin-when-did-it-all-go-wrong-cryptocurrencies http://www.scmp.com/news/china/economy/article/2132119/beiji... [2] https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2018/04/05/good-luck-buying-bitcoin-in-india-as-central-banker-bans/#3021d8ec2996 https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2018/04/05/good-luck-... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population#/media/File:World_population_percentage.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population#/media/File:W...
  - koonsolo 8y ago
    Sorry for the snark, it was a rough morning (which is no excuse). The BTC ban in China needs to be nuanced: 'While private parties can hold and trade bitcoins in China, regulation prohibits financial firms like banks from doing the same.' see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_bitcoin_by_country_or_territory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_bitcoin_by_country... India also doesn't seem to have a law in place to really ban it. Wikipedia has a nice map that shows only a few small states really banned bitcoin: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_bitcoin_by_country_or_territory#/media/File:Legal_status_of_bitcoin.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_bitcoin_by_country... I support the current stance of the US government on cryptocurrencies, because I think it's a sane way to approach this new technology, although there is a lot of speculation going on. I assume EU is going to have the same point of view more or less.
    - bb88 8y ago
      I'm quoting this from one of the articles I linked above in the gp: "With the announcement that it plans to block all websites related to cryptocurrency trading and initial coin offerings – including foreign platforms – Beijing has left no one in any doubt of its position on the highly volatile commodity." The Economic Times of India talks about banking regulations surrounding bitcoin [1]: "RBI, while announcing its first bi-monthly monetary policy for the FY 2018-19, has announced that any entity regulated by them such as banks, wallets etc. shall not deal with or provide services to any individual or business entities for buying or selling of cryptocurrency such as bitcoins." If you're going to invest in BTC, you're most likely going to do it through your bank account. Banning banks from working with crytocurrency exchanges is a big step in that direction because it severely impacts your ability to participate in those exchanges. And that gets me back to the original point. A country just needs to attack the exchanges. BTC is only worth something if you can exchange it for something else. [1] https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/wealth/personal-finance-news/your-bank-will-not-allow-you-to-buy-bitcoins-anymore/articleshow/63627123.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/wealth/personal-finance...
      - 8y ago
isaiahg 8y ago
Okay lets do that. How do they enforce it? Many of the biggest exchanges are not in the US. There are some exchanges that are decentralized themselves and can't be taken down easily. Many countries are embracing cryptocurrencies like Germany, South Korea, Japan, and will offer safe havens for exchanges. Of course cryptocurrency can always go underground and hid their traffic. Technically you could even run a cryptocurrency network through email. Technology has and will always move faster than governments. On another front, it might be hard to galvanize support to ban cryptocurrency when many of the movers and shakers have embraced it. IBM is the largest tech provider to the financial sector and is working on more than 400 blockchain projects and runs its own cross border payment system that may already process 60% of all cross-border payments in the South Pacific using the Lumen crypto. Word is also going around the JPMorgan might start up bitcoin futures trading soon. It seems like to me that the old world and gatekeepers have already decided that this is the way the world is moving.
- bb88 8y ago
  > Okay lets do that. How do they enforce it? There are some exchanges that are decentralized themselves and can't be taken down easily. So your argument is "You can make it illegal all you want, but we'll just move it underground and it will never die." Arguments like that do little to win over regulators. The last time I checked in the US, cryptocurrency fell within the jurisdiction of the CFTC, IRS, SEC, and FinCEN agencies. Three of those agencies have already made policies regarding cryptocurrencies without needing an act of congress. > On another front, it might be hard to galvanize support to ban cryptocurrency when many of the movers and shakers have embraced it. Again, this argument is not compelling enough. Popular things once done by people or companies have been made illegal time and time again. Any argument that allows companies to profit off illegal activities (money laundering comes to mind) in a legal way without regulation, is DOA.