5 ms·

Seveneves was deeply traumatizing to me; I don't think Stephenson really grasps what 5000 years means to some isolated populations. I don't think I'm ever goin

Seveneves was deeply traumatizing to me; I don't think Stephenson really grasps what 5000 years means to some isolated populations. I don't think I'm ever going to re-read it.

hideo 9y ago
Yeah, I was/am a huge fan of his books. Anathem is just an incredible work of art and deserves every bit of recognition it got if not more. But REAMDE and Seveneves were just terribly disappointing and a huge letdown to me. They both seemed shallow and flat compared to the depth of story in his other books. I don't think I can think of any other author whose books I both adore and loathe.
- Avshalom 9y ago
  It's not necessarily that Seveneves felt 'flat' so much as the second half presents people as basically un changed after millennia which in some cases is over-lookable and in other cases deeply deeply lacking in empathy.
  - toasterlovin 9y ago
    But hadn’t the pingers started to develop adaptations to ocean life? And both the diggers and the pingers would have a hard time generating novel adaptations because they were severely population constrained (smaller population = lower total generation of mutations). And anyway, 5000 years is enough time for subpopulations to diverge, but it’s not enough time for subspecies to emerge.
    - Avshalom 9y ago
      The spacers adherence to the past struck me as un realistic. The Diggers though I can't even think of their millennia, the absolute iron rule they had to maintain to survive... the inescapable fear... well I'm crying as I type this comment.
      - kbenson 9y ago
        > The spacers adherence to the past struck me as un realistic. I don't know. If you are the last remnants of a great civilization, I can see that being elevated to the point of religion or near religion, which can help things persist for quite a long time, since it's longevity is no longer based on logic.
        Avshalom 9y ago
        It's not the spacers that make me break into tears a year after I read the book though. Realistic or not they had thousands of years more freedom than the Diggers.
        kbenson 9y ago
        It's harsh and it's sad, but is it really all that much worse than the many tens of thousands of years where humans lived in small tribes, sometimes in harsh ecosystems, with disease and pain and local conflict? For the vast majority of our history, humans have lived far worse off than now. Sure, it's easy to tell yourself they were happy living in a simpler time in and some cases a tropical paradise, but losing most your siblings in early childhood and passing away yourself at the old age of 32 because you scraped your leg and tf got infected doesn't sound all that great to me. That said, people of the past probably were happy. Happiness at your condition and situation seems to be highly relative. To us, it looks like a horrible punishment, but to them, it's just life, and losing your friends and family to illness and accident was likely as accepted as the fact today that you'll at some point die of old age.
        Avshalom 9y ago
        Ten thousand years ago they could walk away, they might die but they wouldn't kill everyone that they could conceive of. The resources weren't obviously limited, the idea that everything they could conceive of would be lost wouldn't have occurred. The absolute limitation, the sacrifice, the need to keep sacrificing for un told generations... THEY HAD NO SKY. They had no future but theory... I'm not trying to convince you. I'm just saying: it was traumatizing to me.
    - rtkwe 9y ago
      They would have likely (almost definitely since it was a government project) had access to similar gene editing tech to the Ark.
  - kbenson 9y ago
    I admit, I also felt the characterization of people in the second half was upsetting, but more upsetting to me was the enormous loss of diversity, and I thought that somewhat explained the relations. These people aren't humans as we know them, they are walking scientific caricatures of them come to life. From that, I didn't really feel it was a statement about "people" per-se, as much as it was a way for him to manipulate the situation in a way where he could make wild predictions about millennia in the future while skirting reality fairly loosely. All quirks and weirdness can basically be explained as "see situation".
    - Avshalom 9y ago
      As extreme a genetic bottle neck as he invents I still feel like his future is overly distinguished. But as I say in siblings: thats not what wrecks me.
- ghaff 9y ago
  REAMDE, among other problems, was one of those books where all sorts of things had to just click together or there wouldn't be a story. Seveneves was pretty good for about half the book. Then illogical events happened that culminated in "and then a miracle (really multiple miracles) happened" which really stretched my suspension of disbelief for the last part.
- teamhappy 9y ago
  A couple of days ago I've decided to not finish Seveneves after having been disappointed by REAMDE already. Are there any recent book releases anyone can recommend to people who love Cryptonomicon, Anathem and Snow Crash but aren't really into REAMDE and Seveneves?
thatcherc 9y ago
I don't think I really grasp what 5000 years means either, and to which populations? I liked Seveneves because I'm a big fan of stories set in space, but I'm interested in hearing your take on it if you feel like writing more.
- Avshalom 9y ago
  Nothing particularly. The spacers just seemed overly concerned with 5k ago (which for reference is almost pre history for us). nccebkvzngryl n uhaqerq crbcyr yvivat va n pnir sbe 5000 lrnef gur nofbyhgr veba svfg gb fheivir vg. Gur greebe bs nalguvat snvyvat. Gur furne genhzn bs 200 trarengvbaf tebjvat haqre guvf nofbyhgr hadhrfgvbanoyr yvzvgngvba... Fgrcurafba unf ab vqrn whfg ubj qrrcyl gung jbhyq qrfgebl hf. Tenagrq gung'f cnegyl sbe gur fnxr bs univat n cybg va gur frpbaq unys, fgvyy... Nggrzcgvat gb rzcunfvmr jvgu gurz qrfgeblf zr.
  - toasterlovin 9y ago
    But we would probably be more concerned with 5k years ago if humanity were highly developed enough to have left us an extensive collection of writing. Heck, Hindus and Jews still care about writings (orally transmitted before the alphabet) that originated 3-4K years ago.
wrinkl3 9y ago
The races and the inter-racial relations in the book's future make zero sense: Why the hell did Moirans and Teklans not intermarry into a single race centuries ago? Why are the docile sexless Camites still around? Why are there not one but TWO races that are mainly characterized as being evil (and the characterization is not even subverted in-story)?

Seveneves was deeply traumatizing to me; I don't think Stephenson really grasps what 5000 years means to some isolated populations. I don't think I'm ever going to re-read it.

hideo 9y ago

Yeah, I was/am a huge fan of his books. Anathem is just an incredible work of art and deserves every bit of recognition it got if not more. But REAMDE and Seveneves were just terribly disappointing and a huge letdown to me. They both seemed shallow and flat compared to the depth of story in his other books. I don't think I can think of any other author whose books I both adore and loathe.

Avshalom 9y ago
It's not necessarily that Seveneves felt 'flat' so much as the second half presents people as basically un changed after millennia which in some cases is over-lookable and in other cases deeply deeply lacking in empathy.
- toasterlovin 9y ago
  But hadn’t the pingers started to develop adaptations to ocean life? And both the diggers and the pingers would have a hard time generating novel adaptations because they were severely population constrained (smaller population = lower total generation of mutations). And anyway, 5000 years is enough time for subpopulations to diverge, but it’s not enough time for subspecies to emerge.
  - Avshalom 9y ago
    The spacers adherence to the past struck me as un realistic. The Diggers though I can't even think of their millennia, the absolute iron rule they had to maintain to survive... the inescapable fear... well I'm crying as I type this comment.
    - kbenson 9y ago
      > The spacers adherence to the past struck me as un realistic. I don't know. If you are the last remnants of a great civilization, I can see that being elevated to the point of religion or near religion, which can help things persist for quite a long time, since it's longevity is no longer based on logic.
      - Avshalom 9y ago
        It's not the spacers that make me break into tears a year after I read the book though. Realistic or not they had thousands of years more freedom than the Diggers.
        kbenson 9y ago
        It's harsh and it's sad, but is it really all that much worse than the many tens of thousands of years where humans lived in small tribes, sometimes in harsh ecosystems, with disease and pain and local conflict? For the vast majority of our history, humans have lived far worse off than now. Sure, it's easy to tell yourself they were happy living in a simpler time in and some cases a tropical paradise, but losing most your siblings in early childhood and passing away yourself at the old age of 32 because you scraped your leg and tf got infected doesn't sound all that great to me. That said, people of the past probably were happy. Happiness at your condition and situation seems to be highly relative. To us, it looks like a horrible punishment, but to them, it's just life, and losing your friends and family to illness and accident was likely as accepted as the fact today that you'll at some point die of old age.
        Avshalom 9y ago
        Ten thousand years ago they could walk away, they might die but they wouldn't kill everyone that they could conceive of. The resources weren't obviously limited, the idea that everything they could conceive of would be lost wouldn't have occurred. The absolute limitation, the sacrifice, the need to keep sacrificing for un told generations... THEY HAD NO SKY. They had no future but theory... I'm not trying to convince you. I'm just saying: it was traumatizing to me.
  - rtkwe 9y ago
    They would have likely (almost definitely since it was a government project) had access to similar gene editing tech to the Ark.
- kbenson 9y ago
  I admit, I also felt the characterization of people in the second half was upsetting, but more upsetting to me was the enormous loss of diversity, and I thought that somewhat explained the relations. These people aren't humans as we know them, they are walking scientific caricatures of them come to life. From that, I didn't really feel it was a statement about "people" per-se, as much as it was a way for him to manipulate the situation in a way where he could make wild predictions about millennia in the future while skirting reality fairly loosely. All quirks and weirdness can basically be explained as "see situation".
  - Avshalom 9y ago
    As extreme a genetic bottle neck as he invents I still feel like his future is overly distinguished. But as I say in siblings: thats not what wrecks me.
ghaff 9y ago
REAMDE, among other problems, was one of those books where all sorts of things had to just click together or there wouldn't be a story. Seveneves was pretty good for about half the book. Then illogical events happened that culminated in "and then a miracle (really multiple miracles) happened" which really stretched my suspension of disbelief for the last part.
teamhappy 9y ago
A couple of days ago I've decided to not finish Seveneves after having been disappointed by REAMDE already. Are there any recent book releases anyone can recommend to people who love Cryptonomicon, Anathem and Snow Crash but aren't really into REAMDE and Seveneves?

thatcherc 9y ago

I don't think I really grasp what 5000 years means either, and to which populations? I liked Seveneves because I'm a big fan of stories set in space, but I'm interested in hearing your take on it if you feel like writing more.

Avshalom 9y ago
Nothing particularly. The spacers just seemed overly concerned with 5k ago (which for reference is almost pre history for us). nccebkvzngryl n uhaqerq crbcyr yvivat va n pnir sbe 5000 lrnef gur nofbyhgr veba svfg gb fheivir vg. Gur greebe bs nalguvat snvyvat. Gur furne genhzn bs 200 trarengvbaf tebjvat haqre guvf nofbyhgr hadhrfgvbanoyr yvzvgngvba... Fgrcurafba unf ab vqrn whfg ubj qrrcyl gung jbhyq qrfgebl hf. Tenagrq gung'f cnegyl sbe gur fnxr bs univat n cybg va gur frpbaq unys, fgvyy... Nggrzcgvat gb rzcunfvmr jvgu gurz qrfgeblf zr.
- toasterlovin 9y ago
  But we would probably be more concerned with 5k years ago if humanity were highly developed enough to have left us an extensive collection of writing. Heck, Hindus and Jews still care about writings (orally transmitted before the alphabet) that originated 3-4K years ago.

wrinkl3 9y ago

The races and the inter-racial relations in the book's future make zero sense: Why the hell did Moirans and Teklans not intermarry into a single race centuries ago? Why are the docile sexless Camites still around? Why are there not one but TWO races that are mainly characterized as being evil (and the characterization is not even subverted in-story)?