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Just because some people ended up in a relationship this way doesn't mean the behaviour should be encouraged. Sure, some people won't mind being asked out repe

Just because some people ended up in a relationship this way doesn't mean the behaviour should be encouraged. Sure, some people won't mind being asked out repeatedly, or maybe even find it flattering, but some people will find it very uncomfortable, and forcing those people to deal with that just so some people get to enjoy a silly courtship ritual is not really fair.

sheepmullet 8y ago
> but some people will find it very uncomfortable And are they being reasonable or not? I know people who find it very uncomfortable to leave their house. I know people who find it very uncomfortable to talk to someone they don't know. I personally find any kind of sales and advertising incredibly uncomfortable. Almost everyone finds it very uncomfortable when they have their views challenged. Just because something makes some people uncomfortable doesn't make it bad.
- aninhumer 8y ago
  What exactly do you think it mean for someone's experience of discomfort to be "unreasonable"? And why do you think that justifies taking actions that we know are likely to cause someone else discomfort? I can't say I find your examples particularly justifying. I think we should leave agoraphobic introverts alone if that's what they want. I think sales and advertising are obnoxious and society would be better without them. And I think people should be free to explore different views at their own pace, as long as they're not hurting anyone. Or if they are hurting someone, then that discomfort caused by challenging their views is justified, but it's still a bad thing in itself.
  - sheepmullet 8y ago
    > What exactly do you think it mean for someone's experience of discomfort to be "unreasonable"? Way outside of the norm. I'm not quite sure what you are getting at? > And why do you think that justifies taking actions that we know are likely to cause someone else discomfort? 1. Is causing discomfort immoral? Sometimes but it can also be a good thing. 2. What makes you think it's likely to cause discomfort? It's a tiny minority who are truly bothered. The reason guys will ask multiple times is because it works - Millions of happy relationships have started after an initial rejection. 3. Why do you only consider one persons discomfort? Not being able to find a life partner is incredibly discomforting. What about the discomfort faced by the many many women who like being chased?
    - aninhumer 8y ago
      >Way outside of the norm. >It's a tiny minority who are truly bothered. I don't think women feeling harassed by men's advances is remotely "outside the norm", or a "tiny minority". It's very common, which is exactly the problem. >What about the discomfort faced by the many many women who like being chased? If people like this kind of courtship, they should be willing to communicate that, rather than making it impossible for anyone to say "no" just so they can get their kicks. If there's no safeword for this "chasing" it shouldn't be considered consensual.
      - sheepmullet 8y ago
        > I don't think women feeling harassed by men's advances is remotely "outside the norm", or a "tiny minority". It's very common, which is exactly the problem. By college students on campus? That's not at all the impression I get from my daughter or her friends who finished college recently. Her opinion is the men are way too timid. > If people like this kind of courtship, they should be willing to communicate that Why? Why isn't it up to the minority of people who have a problem to communicate clearly? > impossible for anyone to say "no" just so they can get their kicks. It doesn't make it impossible to say no. What are you talking about? What it means is a women might have to say no a couple of times over time or make it clear they have no interest at all. I've asked a friend to meet up for coffee 3x this fortnight and he has said no each time. Should I never ask him again to get coffee? If I keep asking him does that mean he can't say no?

sheepmullet 8y ago

> but some people will find it very uncomfortable And are they being reasonable or not? I know people who find it very uncomfortable to leave their house. I know people who find it very uncomfortable to talk to someone they don't know. I personally find any kind of sales and advertising incredibly uncomfortable. Almost everyone finds it very uncomfortable when they have their views challenged. Just because something makes some people uncomfortable doesn't make it bad.

aninhumer 8y ago
What exactly do you think it mean for someone's experience of discomfort to be "unreasonable"? And why do you think that justifies taking actions that we know are likely to cause someone else discomfort? I can't say I find your examples particularly justifying. I think we should leave agoraphobic introverts alone if that's what they want. I think sales and advertising are obnoxious and society would be better without them. And I think people should be free to explore different views at their own pace, as long as they're not hurting anyone. Or if they are hurting someone, then that discomfort caused by challenging their views is justified, but it's still a bad thing in itself.
- sheepmullet 8y ago
  > What exactly do you think it mean for someone's experience of discomfort to be "unreasonable"? Way outside of the norm. I'm not quite sure what you are getting at? > And why do you think that justifies taking actions that we know are likely to cause someone else discomfort? 1. Is causing discomfort immoral? Sometimes but it can also be a good thing. 2. What makes you think it's likely to cause discomfort? It's a tiny minority who are truly bothered. The reason guys will ask multiple times is because it works - Millions of happy relationships have started after an initial rejection. 3. Why do you only consider one persons discomfort? Not being able to find a life partner is incredibly discomforting. What about the discomfort faced by the many many women who like being chased?
  - aninhumer 8y ago
    >Way outside of the norm. >It's a tiny minority who are truly bothered. I don't think women feeling harassed by men's advances is remotely "outside the norm", or a "tiny minority". It's very common, which is exactly the problem. >What about the discomfort faced by the many many women who like being chased? If people like this kind of courtship, they should be willing to communicate that, rather than making it impossible for anyone to say "no" just so they can get their kicks. If there's no safeword for this "chasing" it shouldn't be considered consensual.
    - sheepmullet 8y ago
      > I don't think women feeling harassed by men's advances is remotely "outside the norm", or a "tiny minority". It's very common, which is exactly the problem. By college students on campus? That's not at all the impression I get from my daughter or her friends who finished college recently. Her opinion is the men are way too timid. > If people like this kind of courtship, they should be willing to communicate that Why? Why isn't it up to the minority of people who have a problem to communicate clearly? > impossible for anyone to say "no" just so they can get their kicks. It doesn't make it impossible to say no. What are you talking about? What it means is a women might have to say no a couple of times over time or make it clear they have no interest at all. I've asked a friend to meet up for coffee 3x this fortnight and he has said no each time. Should I never ask him again to get coffee? If I keep asking him does that mean he can't say no?