4 ms·

I'd be curious to ask the author, + Have many of your laid off peers had trouble finding work, post-layoff? + Do you think you'd have a difficult time finding

I'd be curious to ask the author, + Have many of your laid off peers had trouble finding work, post-layoff? + Do you think you'd have a difficult time finding another job if you were laid off? Most people in tech, who are willing to live in one of a half dozen specific cities, have job security prior generations could only have dreamed of. Tech skills are far more portable than a skilled line worker at Ford's River Rouge plant in the 1960s, where job-hopping was nearly impossible due to union senority regulations. I work at a VC firm and every company struggles with hiring enough talented people. I don't know many, really any, people who are moderately skilled and unable to find work in this environment. That could change if there's a big macro swing. That's not to say the broader criticism of job security is wrong. I have plenty of 50+ family members that are struggling on the finish line to retirement. Other people in my circle never had a fair shot at the start, but I don't know that there's ever been a better time to be a member of the professional class, even at a mid-skill level.

Rafuino 8y ago
I'd be curious to ask you what "tech skills" means. What's demanded by the companies you refer to is likely shifting constantly. If you're not working in the hot stack, you're not going to have job security "prior generations could only have dreamed of."
- zanny 8y ago
  HN might not like to hear it, but what this hive mind likes to think of as "hot stack" - React, Node based software in general, etc - is not even close to the "hot stack" of almost anywhere except in the microcosm of California around SF. At the end of the day there will still be a dozen programming jobs in .Net or Java to every one in the latest and greatest web tech. In equal parts because on one hand finding people who stay contemporary with the "latest and greatest" is expensive and because businesses don't want to use the latest and greatest if it means changing the software they already wrote twenty years ago.
  - thoughtpalette 8y ago
    This is an absurdly narrow view with regards in what the market/industry wants, especially in regards to geolocation.
- mcphage 8y ago
  > If you're not working in the hot stack, you're not going to have job security What do you think happens to all the software written in languages / frameworks after all the hotshot devs have moved on? They still need features and maintenance, and they’re not rewritten nearly as often or as quickly as people want to think.
  - Rafuino 8y ago
    Totally agree, but I'm not convinced that tech job security is as solid as HN or VCs like to think. I'm trying to get at defining what "tech skills" means. It's such a broad term!
- bdcravens 8y ago
  There is a lot of code written everyday in .NET and Java. No, it's not necessarily in LA, NYC, or SF, and you may not be working for a hot startup. However, you may be imminently more hirable knowing C# than React, if you're willing to work in sectors like energy or healthcare.
AFNobody 8y ago
> That's not to say the broader criticism of job security is wrong. I have plenty of 50+ family members that are struggling on the finish line to retirement. Other people in my circle never had a fair shot at the start, but I don't know that there's ever been a better time to be a member of the professional class, even at a mid-skill level. If you are one of the right sort of people, with the right skills...yes. Many people with degrees never successfully transition into being a full fledged member of the professional class. That is much, much worse than before and the cost of failure is much, much higher than before outside of tech. 2017-2018 are the high point of this particular economic cycle and we are at full employment but that does not mean people have succeeded at the level they have in the past. > I work at a VC firm and every company struggles with hiring enough talented people. I don't know many, really any, people who are moderately skilled and unable to find work in this environment. That could change if there's a big macro swing. Can I find work? Yes. Have I plateaued at my current level of pay and everyone wants to try to pay me 20% less if I change jobs? Yes. It isn't just "Can I find another job?" but "Can I find a comparable job with the same work life balance, benefits, and financial compensation?" That is the real fear with the lack of job security for mid-level professionals as they age and don't move into management. Paycuts, relocation to cheaper regions, or work/life balance cuts have to be taken to some degree. Sure, I'm posting on HN but it is mainly because I work 10+ hour days, 5-6 days a week. I have to break that up somehow.
curun1r 8y ago
This is an important perspective to take. Getting laid off, for someone unfamiliar or unprepared, can be very scary. But I can honestly say that every time I've been laid off (4 times thus far...mostly back in the .com days when smaller companies either imploded or started trending that direction) has been beneficial to my career. The first few layoffs I was young and needed experience. Getting to experience as many different work environments and perspectives of senior engineers was hugely valuable. I saw both how to do things right and wrong and it helped me get to a senior level, both in ability and through getting pay bumps after each move. My most recent layoff was hard personally, because I was leaving an amazing group of coworkers that I still consider friends. But it took me about a month to find another job, which ended up being a company that almost immediately got acquired. Beyond being pretty lucrative for me, the relationship with the CEO of that company has led to him now investing/advising my new startup. It's natural that we panic a bit when circumstance takes the reins and starts to direct our lives. Being in control is just so much more comfortable. But when we learn to take a step back and see the full situation, layoffs can be a really good thing for a lot of people. Ideally, we'd all like to work at hugely successful companies. Having to look for a new job may not be ideal, but the worse situation is continuing to work at a company with limited prospects for success. Being in the group that's laid off first stings a bit, but it's usually better than being one of the the ones that's retained.

Rafuino 8y ago

I'd be curious to ask you what "tech skills" means. What's demanded by the companies you refer to is likely shifting constantly. If you're not working in the hot stack, you're not going to have job security "prior generations could only have dreamed of."

zanny 8y ago
HN might not like to hear it, but what this hive mind likes to think of as "hot stack" - React, Node based software in general, etc - is not even close to the "hot stack" of almost anywhere except in the microcosm of California around SF. At the end of the day there will still be a dozen programming jobs in .Net or Java to every one in the latest and greatest web tech. In equal parts because on one hand finding people who stay contemporary with the "latest and greatest" is expensive and because businesses don't want to use the latest and greatest if it means changing the software they already wrote twenty years ago.
- thoughtpalette 8y ago
  This is an absurdly narrow view with regards in what the market/industry wants, especially in regards to geolocation.
mcphage 8y ago
> If you're not working in the hot stack, you're not going to have job security What do you think happens to all the software written in languages / frameworks after all the hotshot devs have moved on? They still need features and maintenance, and they’re not rewritten nearly as often or as quickly as people want to think.
- Rafuino 8y ago
  Totally agree, but I'm not convinced that tech job security is as solid as HN or VCs like to think. I'm trying to get at defining what "tech skills" means. It's such a broad term!
bdcravens 8y ago
There is a lot of code written everyday in .NET and Java. No, it's not necessarily in LA, NYC, or SF, and you may not be working for a hot startup. However, you may be imminently more hirable knowing C# than React, if you're willing to work in sectors like energy or healthcare.

AFNobody 8y ago

> That's not to say the broader criticism of job security is wrong. I have plenty of 50+ family members that are struggling on the finish line to retirement. Other people in my circle never had a fair shot at the start, but I don't know that there's ever been a better time to be a member of the professional class, even at a mid-skill level. If you are one of the right sort of people, with the right skills...yes. Many people with degrees never successfully transition into being a full fledged member of the professional class. That is much, much worse than before and the cost of failure is much, much higher than before outside of tech. 2017-2018 are the high point of this particular economic cycle and we are at full employment but that does not mean people have succeeded at the level they have in the past. > I work at a VC firm and every company struggles with hiring enough talented people. I don't know many, really any, people who are moderately skilled and unable to find work in this environment. That could change if there's a big macro swing. Can I find work? Yes. Have I plateaued at my current level of pay and everyone wants to try to pay me 20% less if I change jobs? Yes. It isn't just "Can I find another job?" but "Can I find a comparable job with the same work life balance, benefits, and financial compensation?" That is the real fear with the lack of job security for mid-level professionals as they age and don't move into management. Paycuts, relocation to cheaper regions, or work/life balance cuts have to be taken to some degree. Sure, I'm posting on HN but it is mainly because I work 10+ hour days, 5-6 days a week. I have to break that up somehow.

curun1r 8y ago

This is an important perspective to take. Getting laid off, for someone unfamiliar or unprepared, can be very scary. But I can honestly say that every time I've been laid off (4 times thus far...mostly back in the .com days when smaller companies either imploded or started trending that direction) has been beneficial to my career. The first few layoffs I was young and needed experience. Getting to experience as many different work environments and perspectives of senior engineers was hugely valuable. I saw both how to do things right and wrong and it helped me get to a senior level, both in ability and through getting pay bumps after each move. My most recent layoff was hard personally, because I was leaving an amazing group of coworkers that I still consider friends. But it took me about a month to find another job, which ended up being a company that almost immediately got acquired. Beyond being pretty lucrative for me, the relationship with the CEO of that company has led to him now investing/advising my new startup. It's natural that we panic a bit when circumstance takes the reins and starts to direct our lives. Being in control is just so much more comfortable. But when we learn to take a step back and see the full situation, layoffs can be a really good thing for a lot of people. Ideally, we'd all like to work at hugely successful companies. Having to look for a new job may not be ideal, but the worse situation is continuing to work at a company with limited prospects for success. Being in the group that's laid off first stings a bit, but it's usually better than being one of the the ones that's retained.