6 ms·

It's always felt like the most disciplined of his books to me - Snow Crash is almost there, but just a little too formulaic as a story. I enjoy the digressions

It's always felt like the most disciplined of his books to me - Snow Crash is almost there, but just a little too formulaic as a story. I enjoy the digressions and length in his other work, but they can get a little dull after the first reading.

Avshalom 8y ago
I agree as far as the novel/ridiculously-long-essay dichotomy goes. That said Snow Crash is usually called a satire of (post)cyberpunk and as a satire it needs to adhere to the formula more than just another entry in the genre.
- asteli 8y ago
  That explains a lot about my impressions of Snow Crash specifically. I felt that Stephenson wasn't being serious with his writing (contrast to, say, William Gibson's original treatment of cyberpunk). A bit toward the Terry Pratchett side of the writing spectrum. I found it to be a slight turn-off, but if what you say is true, I'm more inclined to give Stephenson's other work more attention.
  - hinkley 8y ago
    I wonder how that lines up with people who hate the first chapter and think it’s a nonsequitur versus people who enjoy it for its absurdity, versus people who think it is perfectly in keeping with the rest of the book. Is it Gene Wilder doing a front flip in his first scene in Willie Wonka so you never quite trust him again?
    - Avshalom 8y ago
      >> Gene Wilder doing a front flip in his first scene in Willie Wonka so you never quite trust him again? ... ... Oh SHIT.
      - hinkley 8y ago
        You are one of today’s 10,000. Go read up on Gene Wilder and all the feedback he gave for WW. That scene was his idea. He got into that role like Daniel Day Lewis or Viggo Mortensen.
- mattkevan 8y ago
  Naming your main character Hiro Protagonist gives the game away somewhat.
  - Avshalom 8y ago
    Unless you're 12 years old and Snow Crash is your first exposure to the genre. <.< >.> You know, speaking for a friend.
    - mattkevan 8y ago
      Even so, your ‘friend’ could have chosen worse places to start...
  - taneq 8y ago
    To be perfectly honest, I did (and still do) oscillate on how I see that choice. Is it: 1) A clever if superficial name, 2) A dumb name because it's too obvious, 3) A clever name because it's satirizing the dumb choice of an obvious name, 4) A dumb name because the satire is also transparent... Basically it only works on odd "Yomi layers" (see http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/7-spies-of-the-mind http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/7-spies-of-the-mind). The rest of the book perfectly straddles the "haha-only-serious" line so I guess it's in keeping.
- DanBC 8y ago
  > usually called a satire Isn't that a post-rationalisation? Was anyone saying that at the time?
  - Avshalom 8y ago
    I don't know. I first read it in like '98/'99 ish? and by the time I was reading reviews for it people were calling it satire or at least definitely winking at the audience (as a sibling points out: hiro protagonist) I don't know what the conversation was contemporaneously with release.
  - svachalek 8y ago
    Oh yeah. I read it when it came out and it was definitely satire. The genre's tropes were very well set up by then, actually now that I think about it, it was probably the gravestone for the genre.
    - tialaramex 8y ago
      I think the point of the prologue in Diamond Age is to act as gravestone. Bud (Nell's father) is the prototypical cyberpunk character. And he's literally killed off by the events of that chapter. He plays no role in Nell's life, he's never brought up again, it's Stephenson saying this novel is literally post-cyberpunk.
      - saltcured 8y ago
        What is the relationship of the Young Lady's Primer to Colin, the souped-up, hand-held travel guide used by the Yakuza boss's little girl in Mona Lisa Overdrive? Satire or just hyperbolic derivative?
        templar_muse 8y ago
        Mona Lisa Overdrive, published in 1988. A Young Lady's Illustrated Primer, published in 1995.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
__jal 8y ago
I actually liked it less than others. Snow Crash, despite being a train-wreck in terms of narrative cohesion, plotting, and basically every other measure of fiction as a craft, is just about perfect mind-candy. I reread it about two years ago, and it was almost as good as the first time. Later work like Anathem, I think, starts showing him as a mature author[1], finally paying as much attention to the craft of writing as the ideas. Diamond Age... I dunno. Certainly had its moments, and the exploration of 90s-era anarcho-capitalist crypto-anarchy themes was solid, but it really didn't grab me that much. The writing was less uneven than Snow Crash, but a lot of the crazy brilliance was missing. [1] Still flunking Fictional Narrative Endings 101, but apparently that's intentional.
- gruturo 8y ago
  [1] Still flunking Fictional Narrative Endings 101, but apparently that's intentional. How is that intentional, I’m curious? I love his books but I hate hate hate HATE how he can’t ever finish one properly. I just went through seveneves and decided that maybe I really had enough of his endings.
  - _jal 8y ago
    He used to have a comment on it at one of his websites, but that appears to be gone. This quotes that: http://kaedrin.com/weblog/archive/001495.html http://kaedrin.com/weblog/archive/001495.html
    - mirimir 8y ago
      His endings have consistently left me expecting a sequel. Well, not really expecting, any more, because I pretty much know what (not) to expect. But then there was Mongoliad, so ???
  - oldcynic 8y ago
    One of the reasons I love his books is the lack of "Standard Hollywood / Fictional Ending number 1" that has become so pervasive that it's effectively satire of itself and so unsatisfying.

Avshalom 8y ago

I agree as far as the novel/ridiculously-long-essay dichotomy goes. That said Snow Crash is usually called a satire of (post)cyberpunk and as a satire it needs to adhere to the formula more than just another entry in the genre.

asteli 8y ago
That explains a lot about my impressions of Snow Crash specifically. I felt that Stephenson wasn't being serious with his writing (contrast to, say, William Gibson's original treatment of cyberpunk). A bit toward the Terry Pratchett side of the writing spectrum. I found it to be a slight turn-off, but if what you say is true, I'm more inclined to give Stephenson's other work more attention.
- hinkley 8y ago
  I wonder how that lines up with people who hate the first chapter and think it’s a nonsequitur versus people who enjoy it for its absurdity, versus people who think it is perfectly in keeping with the rest of the book. Is it Gene Wilder doing a front flip in his first scene in Willie Wonka so you never quite trust him again?
  - Avshalom 8y ago
    >> Gene Wilder doing a front flip in his first scene in Willie Wonka so you never quite trust him again? ... ... Oh SHIT.
    - hinkley 8y ago
      You are one of today’s 10,000. Go read up on Gene Wilder and all the feedback he gave for WW. That scene was his idea. He got into that role like Daniel Day Lewis or Viggo Mortensen.
mattkevan 8y ago
Naming your main character Hiro Protagonist gives the game away somewhat.
- Avshalom 8y ago
  Unless you're 12 years old and Snow Crash is your first exposure to the genre. <.< >.> You know, speaking for a friend.
  - mattkevan 8y ago
    Even so, your ‘friend’ could have chosen worse places to start...
- taneq 8y ago
  To be perfectly honest, I did (and still do) oscillate on how I see that choice. Is it: 1) A clever if superficial name, 2) A dumb name because it's too obvious, 3) A clever name because it's satirizing the dumb choice of an obvious name, 4) A dumb name because the satire is also transparent... Basically it only works on odd "Yomi layers" (see http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/7-spies-of-the-mind http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/7-spies-of-the-mind). The rest of the book perfectly straddles the "haha-only-serious" line so I guess it's in keeping.
DanBC 8y ago
> usually called a satire Isn't that a post-rationalisation? Was anyone saying that at the time?
- Avshalom 8y ago
  I don't know. I first read it in like '98/'99 ish? and by the time I was reading reviews for it people were calling it satire or at least definitely winking at the audience (as a sibling points out: hiro protagonist) I don't know what the conversation was contemporaneously with release.
- svachalek 8y ago
  Oh yeah. I read it when it came out and it was definitely satire. The genre's tropes were very well set up by then, actually now that I think about it, it was probably the gravestone for the genre.
  - tialaramex 8y ago
    I think the point of the prologue in Diamond Age is to act as gravestone. Bud (Nell's father) is the prototypical cyberpunk character. And he's literally killed off by the events of that chapter. He plays no role in Nell's life, he's never brought up again, it's Stephenson saying this novel is literally post-cyberpunk.
    - saltcured 8y ago
      What is the relationship of the Young Lady's Primer to Colin, the souped-up, hand-held travel guide used by the Yakuza boss's little girl in Mona Lisa Overdrive? Satire or just hyperbolic derivative?
      - templar_muse 8y ago
        Mona Lisa Overdrive, published in 1988. A Young Lady's Illustrated Primer, published in 1995.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

__jal 8y ago

I actually liked it less than others. Snow Crash, despite being a train-wreck in terms of narrative cohesion, plotting, and basically every other measure of fiction as a craft, is just about perfect mind-candy. I reread it about two years ago, and it was almost as good as the first time. Later work like Anathem, I think, starts showing him as a mature author[1], finally paying as much attention to the craft of writing as the ideas. Diamond Age... I dunno. Certainly had its moments, and the exploration of 90s-era anarcho-capitalist crypto-anarchy themes was solid, but it really didn't grab me that much. The writing was less uneven than Snow Crash, but a lot of the crazy brilliance was missing. [1] Still flunking Fictional Narrative Endings 101, but apparently that's intentional.

gruturo 8y ago
[1] Still flunking Fictional Narrative Endings 101, but apparently that's intentional. How is that intentional, I’m curious? I love his books but I hate hate hate HATE how he can’t ever finish one properly. I just went through seveneves and decided that maybe I really had enough of his endings.
- _jal 8y ago
  He used to have a comment on it at one of his websites, but that appears to be gone. This quotes that: http://kaedrin.com/weblog/archive/001495.html http://kaedrin.com/weblog/archive/001495.html
  - mirimir 8y ago
    His endings have consistently left me expecting a sequel. Well, not really expecting, any more, because I pretty much know what (not) to expect. But then there was Mongoliad, so ???
- oldcynic 8y ago
  One of the reasons I love his books is the lack of "Standard Hollywood / Fictional Ending number 1" that has become so pervasive that it's effectively satire of itself and so unsatisfying.