8 ms·

I like Stephenson's writing a lot but i don't know if I could re-read his books. The frequent, lengthy digressions put me off of reading them again.

smogcutter 8y ago
IMO Diamond Age feels way less like a recap of Stephenson's reading list than some of the others. Worth a second look if you're on the fence and looking for a good story.
- eponeponepon 8y ago
  It's always felt like the most disciplined of his books to me - Snow Crash is almost there, but just a little too formulaic as a story. I enjoy the digressions and length in his other work, but they can get a little dull after the first reading.
  - Avshalom 8y ago
    I agree as far as the novel/ridiculously-long-essay dichotomy goes. That said Snow Crash is usually called a satire of (post)cyberpunk and as a satire it needs to adhere to the formula more than just another entry in the genre.
    - asteli 8y ago
      That explains a lot about my impressions of Snow Crash specifically. I felt that Stephenson wasn't being serious with his writing (contrast to, say, William Gibson's original treatment of cyberpunk). A bit toward the Terry Pratchett side of the writing spectrum. I found it to be a slight turn-off, but if what you say is true, I'm more inclined to give Stephenson's other work more attention.
      - hinkley 8y ago
        I wonder how that lines up with people who hate the first chapter and think it’s a nonsequitur versus people who enjoy it for its absurdity, versus people who think it is perfectly in keeping with the rest of the book. Is it Gene Wilder doing a front flip in his first scene in Willie Wonka so you never quite trust him again?
        Avshalom 8y ago
        >> Gene Wilder doing a front flip in his first scene in Willie Wonka so you never quite trust him again? ... ... Oh SHIT.
        hinkley 8y ago
        You are one of today’s 10,000. Go read up on Gene Wilder and all the feedback he gave for WW. That scene was his idea. He got into that role like Daniel Day Lewis or Viggo Mortensen.
    - mattkevan 8y ago
      Naming your main character Hiro Protagonist gives the game away somewhat.
      - Avshalom 8y ago
        Unless you're 12 years old and Snow Crash is your first exposure to the genre. <.< >.> You know, speaking for a friend.
        mattkevan 8y ago
        Even so, your ‘friend’ could have chosen worse places to start...
      - taneq 8y ago
        To be perfectly honest, I did (and still do) oscillate on how I see that choice. Is it: 1) A clever if superficial name, 2) A dumb name because it's too obvious, 3) A clever name because it's satirizing the dumb choice of an obvious name, 4) A dumb name because the satire is also transparent... Basically it only works on odd "Yomi layers" (see http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/7-spies-of-the-mind http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/7-spies-of-the-mind). The rest of the book perfectly straddles the "haha-only-serious" line so I guess it's in keeping.
    - DanBC 8y ago
      > usually called a satire Isn't that a post-rationalisation? Was anyone saying that at the time?
      - Avshalom 8y ago
        I don't know. I first read it in like '98/'99 ish? and by the time I was reading reviews for it people were calling it satire or at least definitely winking at the audience (as a sibling points out: hiro protagonist) I don't know what the conversation was contemporaneously with release.
      - svachalek 8y ago
        Oh yeah. I read it when it came out and it was definitely satire. The genre's tropes were very well set up by then, actually now that I think about it, it was probably the gravestone for the genre.
        tialaramex 8y ago
        I think the point of the prologue in Diamond Age is to act as gravestone. Bud (Nell's father) is the prototypical cyberpunk character. And he's literally killed off by the events of that chapter. He plays no role in Nell's life, he's never brought up again, it's Stephenson saying this novel is literally post-cyberpunk.
        saltcured 8y ago
        What is the relationship of the Young Lady's Primer to Colin, the souped-up, hand-held travel guide used by the Yakuza boss's little girl in Mona Lisa Overdrive? Satire or just hyperbolic derivative?
        templar_muse 8y ago
        Mona Lisa Overdrive, published in 1988. A Young Lady's Illustrated Primer, published in 1995.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
  - __jal 8y ago
    I actually liked it less than others. Snow Crash, despite being a train-wreck in terms of narrative cohesion, plotting, and basically every other measure of fiction as a craft, is just about perfect mind-candy. I reread it about two years ago, and it was almost as good as the first time. Later work like Anathem, I think, starts showing him as a mature author[1], finally paying as much attention to the craft of writing as the ideas. Diamond Age... I dunno. Certainly had its moments, and the exploration of 90s-era anarcho-capitalist crypto-anarchy themes was solid, but it really didn't grab me that much. The writing was less uneven than Snow Crash, but a lot of the crazy brilliance was missing. [1] Still flunking Fictional Narrative Endings 101, but apparently that's intentional.
    - gruturo 8y ago
      [1] Still flunking Fictional Narrative Endings 101, but apparently that's intentional. How is that intentional, I’m curious? I love his books but I hate hate hate HATE how he can’t ever finish one properly. I just went through seveneves and decided that maybe I really had enough of his endings.
      - _jal 8y ago
        He used to have a comment on it at one of his websites, but that appears to be gone. This quotes that: http://kaedrin.com/weblog/archive/001495.html http://kaedrin.com/weblog/archive/001495.html
        mirimir 8y ago
        His endings have consistently left me expecting a sequel. Well, not really expecting, any more, because I pretty much know what (not) to expect. But then there was Mongoliad, so ???
      - oldcynic 8y ago
        One of the reasons I love his books is the lack of "Standard Hollywood / Fictional Ending number 1" that has become so pervasive that it's effectively satire of itself and so unsatisfying.
intrasight 8y ago
I've only re-read "snow crash" - but that was actually a listen to audiobook on a roadtrip
criddell 8y ago
If I were to re-read Snow Crash, I would skip all the talk about ancient Sumer and the Sumerians. IMHO, that book would be greatly improved by eliminating all of that.
- dfox 8y ago
  It serves to build and explain the neo-scientologist motivation of the antagonists. And in my opinion it is somewhat more sane than real scientology mythology.
CobrastanJorji 8y ago
Those are frequently my favorite parts. When I think of Cryptonomicon, I think about the Cap'N Crunch problem.
laurentl 8y ago
I’m currently re-reading Seveneves, and will probably tuck into Cryptonomicon (for the third time) in the next few months. Neal Stephenson’s books are rich enough that I usually get a different vibe from them when I read them again. For instance, on first read I liked the second part of Seveneves better than the first part, and now it’s the other way around. Maybe it’s due to the fact that on first read I get sucked in by the plot twists and on later reads I can enjoy the scenery and pick up different themes.
- Avshalom 8y ago
  Seveneves was deeply traumatizing to me; I don't think Stephenson really grasps what 5000 years means to some isolated populations. I don't think I'm ever going to re-read it.
  - hideo 8y ago
    Yeah, I was/am a huge fan of his books. Anathem is just an incredible work of art and deserves every bit of recognition it got if not more. But REAMDE and Seveneves were just terribly disappointing and a huge letdown to me. They both seemed shallow and flat compared to the depth of story in his other books. I don't think I can think of any other author whose books I both adore and loathe.
    - Avshalom 8y ago
      It's not necessarily that Seveneves felt 'flat' so much as the second half presents people as basically un changed after millennia which in some cases is over-lookable and in other cases deeply deeply lacking in empathy.
      - toasterlovin 8y ago
        But hadn’t the pingers started to develop adaptations to ocean life? And both the diggers and the pingers would have a hard time generating novel adaptations because they were severely population constrained (smaller population = lower total generation of mutations). And anyway, 5000 years is enough time for subpopulations to diverge, but it’s not enough time for subspecies to emerge.

smogcutter 8y ago

IMO Diamond Age feels way less like a recap of Stephenson's reading list than some of the others. Worth a second look if you're on the fence and looking for a good story.

eponeponepon 8y ago
It's always felt like the most disciplined of his books to me - Snow Crash is almost there, but just a little too formulaic as a story. I enjoy the digressions and length in his other work, but they can get a little dull after the first reading.
- Avshalom 8y ago
  I agree as far as the novel/ridiculously-long-essay dichotomy goes. That said Snow Crash is usually called a satire of (post)cyberpunk and as a satire it needs to adhere to the formula more than just another entry in the genre.
  - asteli 8y ago
    That explains a lot about my impressions of Snow Crash specifically. I felt that Stephenson wasn't being serious with his writing (contrast to, say, William Gibson's original treatment of cyberpunk). A bit toward the Terry Pratchett side of the writing spectrum. I found it to be a slight turn-off, but if what you say is true, I'm more inclined to give Stephenson's other work more attention.
    - hinkley 8y ago
      I wonder how that lines up with people who hate the first chapter and think it’s a nonsequitur versus people who enjoy it for its absurdity, versus people who think it is perfectly in keeping with the rest of the book. Is it Gene Wilder doing a front flip in his first scene in Willie Wonka so you never quite trust him again?
      - Avshalom 8y ago
        >> Gene Wilder doing a front flip in his first scene in Willie Wonka so you never quite trust him again? ... ... Oh SHIT.
        hinkley 8y ago
        You are one of today’s 10,000. Go read up on Gene Wilder and all the feedback he gave for WW. That scene was his idea. He got into that role like Daniel Day Lewis or Viggo Mortensen.
  - mattkevan 8y ago
    Naming your main character Hiro Protagonist gives the game away somewhat.
    - Avshalom 8y ago
      Unless you're 12 years old and Snow Crash is your first exposure to the genre. <.< >.> You know, speaking for a friend.
      - mattkevan 8y ago
        Even so, your ‘friend’ could have chosen worse places to start...
    - taneq 8y ago
      To be perfectly honest, I did (and still do) oscillate on how I see that choice. Is it: 1) A clever if superficial name, 2) A dumb name because it's too obvious, 3) A clever name because it's satirizing the dumb choice of an obvious name, 4) A dumb name because the satire is also transparent... Basically it only works on odd "Yomi layers" (see http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/7-spies-of-the-mind http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/7-spies-of-the-mind). The rest of the book perfectly straddles the "haha-only-serious" line so I guess it's in keeping.
  - DanBC 8y ago
    > usually called a satire Isn't that a post-rationalisation? Was anyone saying that at the time?
    - Avshalom 8y ago
      I don't know. I first read it in like '98/'99 ish? and by the time I was reading reviews for it people were calling it satire or at least definitely winking at the audience (as a sibling points out: hiro protagonist) I don't know what the conversation was contemporaneously with release.
    - svachalek 8y ago
      Oh yeah. I read it when it came out and it was definitely satire. The genre's tropes were very well set up by then, actually now that I think about it, it was probably the gravestone for the genre.
      - tialaramex 8y ago
        I think the point of the prologue in Diamond Age is to act as gravestone. Bud (Nell's father) is the prototypical cyberpunk character. And he's literally killed off by the events of that chapter. He plays no role in Nell's life, he's never brought up again, it's Stephenson saying this novel is literally post-cyberpunk.
        saltcured 8y ago
        What is the relationship of the Young Lady's Primer to Colin, the souped-up, hand-held travel guide used by the Yakuza boss's little girl in Mona Lisa Overdrive? Satire or just hyperbolic derivative?
        templar_muse 8y ago
        Mona Lisa Overdrive, published in 1988. A Young Lady's Illustrated Primer, published in 1995.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- __jal 8y ago
  I actually liked it less than others. Snow Crash, despite being a train-wreck in terms of narrative cohesion, plotting, and basically every other measure of fiction as a craft, is just about perfect mind-candy. I reread it about two years ago, and it was almost as good as the first time. Later work like Anathem, I think, starts showing him as a mature author[1], finally paying as much attention to the craft of writing as the ideas. Diamond Age... I dunno. Certainly had its moments, and the exploration of 90s-era anarcho-capitalist crypto-anarchy themes was solid, but it really didn't grab me that much. The writing was less uneven than Snow Crash, but a lot of the crazy brilliance was missing. [1] Still flunking Fictional Narrative Endings 101, but apparently that's intentional.
  - gruturo 8y ago
    [1] Still flunking Fictional Narrative Endings 101, but apparently that's intentional. How is that intentional, I’m curious? I love his books but I hate hate hate HATE how he can’t ever finish one properly. I just went through seveneves and decided that maybe I really had enough of his endings.
    - _jal 8y ago
      He used to have a comment on it at one of his websites, but that appears to be gone. This quotes that: http://kaedrin.com/weblog/archive/001495.html http://kaedrin.com/weblog/archive/001495.html
      - mirimir 8y ago
        His endings have consistently left me expecting a sequel. Well, not really expecting, any more, because I pretty much know what (not) to expect. But then there was Mongoliad, so ???
    - oldcynic 8y ago
      One of the reasons I love his books is the lack of "Standard Hollywood / Fictional Ending number 1" that has become so pervasive that it's effectively satire of itself and so unsatisfying.

intrasight 8y ago

I've only re-read "snow crash" - but that was actually a listen to audiobook on a roadtrip

criddell 8y ago

If I were to re-read Snow Crash, I would skip all the talk about ancient Sumer and the Sumerians. IMHO, that book would be greatly improved by eliminating all of that.

dfox 8y ago
It serves to build and explain the neo-scientologist motivation of the antagonists. And in my opinion it is somewhat more sane than real scientology mythology.

CobrastanJorji 8y ago

Those are frequently my favorite parts. When I think of Cryptonomicon, I think about the Cap'N Crunch problem.

laurentl 8y ago

I’m currently re-reading Seveneves, and will probably tuck into Cryptonomicon (for the third time) in the next few months. Neal Stephenson’s books are rich enough that I usually get a different vibe from them when I read them again. For instance, on first read I liked the second part of Seveneves better than the first part, and now it’s the other way around. Maybe it’s due to the fact that on first read I get sucked in by the plot twists and on later reads I can enjoy the scenery and pick up different themes.

Avshalom 8y ago
Seveneves was deeply traumatizing to me; I don't think Stephenson really grasps what 5000 years means to some isolated populations. I don't think I'm ever going to re-read it.
- hideo 8y ago
  Yeah, I was/am a huge fan of his books. Anathem is just an incredible work of art and deserves every bit of recognition it got if not more. But REAMDE and Seveneves were just terribly disappointing and a huge letdown to me. They both seemed shallow and flat compared to the depth of story in his other books. I don't think I can think of any other author whose books I both adore and loathe.
  - Avshalom 8y ago
    It's not necessarily that Seveneves felt 'flat' so much as the second half presents people as basically un changed after millennia which in some cases is over-lookable and in other cases deeply deeply lacking in empathy.
    - toasterlovin 8y ago
      But hadn’t the pingers started to develop adaptations to ocean life? And both the diggers and the pingers would have a hard time generating novel adaptations because they were severely population constrained (smaller population = lower total generation of mutations). And anyway, 5000 years is enough time for subpopulations to diverge, but it’s not enough time for subspecies to emerge.