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I'm a little troubled that this seems to be completely missing the point of the Diamond Age (aka, "the Fight Club effect"). The whole lesson of the Young Lady's

I'm a little troubled that this seems to be completely missing the point of the Diamond Age (aka, "the Fight Club effect"). The whole lesson of the Young Lady's Illustrated Primer is that you shouldn't make the Young Lady's Illustrated Primer.

Jtsummers 9y ago
I'm curious how you got to that conclusion. I'll admit, it's been ~16 years since I read that book. I remember most of the story but I didn't have the same reaction you seem to have. I'd like to know what your reasoning is.
aidenn0 9y ago
I saw the book as relatively neutral on this point. Nell certainly is improved by it (though it could be easily read that this is largely due to Miranda), and Elizabeth's malaise is easily explained by growing up in luxury, with an abusive teacher. The YLIP is shown as something inferior to a true parent (Miranda being Nell's surrogate parent being pointed to as a big reason for her success), but better than nothing (it was a "best availabe" tool Dr X. provided for the orphans).
- Jtsummers 9y ago
  Wasn't Elizabeth's tutor-actor different from day-to-day? (If I'm recalling my characters correctly.) And that was partly the explanation for how she turned out. While Nell's was a dedicated tutor-actor through the whole time.
  - undersuit 9y ago
    Nell's tutor started recognizing the job offers for the tutor lessons and choose to become the dedicated one.
  - aidenn0 9y ago
    This is true, and more support for the the book considering the Primers to not be insufficient replacement for an involved parent, which is an easy argument to make, but does not mean the book thinks they are bad.
jonathanyc 9y ago
Strange that you are getting downvoted. The second half of Diamond Age is all about how Hackworth’s manipulated version of the book, given to the Chinese orphan girls, causes them to grow up into educated and skilled robots who need a strong external leader in the form of Nell. Nell’s success comes from the fact that she was lucky enough to also have strong role models. This should strike even more alarm bells at a time where we are worrying about the pernicious effects of social media and maliciously targeted material (including material targeted to children).
- Jtsummers 9y ago
  I upvoted them. My question was legitimate, because I'd forgotten about this part: > the Chinese orphan girls, causes them to grow up into educated and skilled robots who need a strong external leader in the form of Nell. They're capable, skilled individuals with no individuality. At once a positive (work well together) and a negative (seemingly require external leadership to direct their efforts). So a downside to the mass adoption of the book.
ddingus 9y ago
Indeed. Honestly, this is all human work. Rather than try to take all the value out of doing it, we really should embrace doing it, and fund those willing to do the work. Sure, not all of them will be stellar, but some will be. That's worth a lot. Seems to me the biggest benefit tech has brought us is so much information access that many only need guidance, experience, to be challenged, mentored. I give back to young people in this way every chance I get. Right now, it's hard, but it's not always hard. Most of those people have come back to say thanks. It helped. They are on a path, chasing after it, whatever it is for them. Good as it gets right now, IMHO.

Jtsummers 9y ago

I'm curious how you got to that conclusion. I'll admit, it's been ~16 years since I read that book. I remember most of the story but I didn't have the same reaction you seem to have. I'd like to know what your reasoning is.

aidenn0 9y ago

I saw the book as relatively neutral on this point. Nell certainly is improved by it (though it could be easily read that this is largely due to Miranda), and Elizabeth's malaise is easily explained by growing up in luxury, with an abusive teacher. The YLIP is shown as something inferior to a true parent (Miranda being Nell's surrogate parent being pointed to as a big reason for her success), but better than nothing (it was a "best availabe" tool Dr X. provided for the orphans).

Jtsummers 9y ago
Wasn't Elizabeth's tutor-actor different from day-to-day? (If I'm recalling my characters correctly.) And that was partly the explanation for how she turned out. While Nell's was a dedicated tutor-actor through the whole time.
- undersuit 9y ago
  Nell's tutor started recognizing the job offers for the tutor lessons and choose to become the dedicated one.
- aidenn0 9y ago
  This is true, and more support for the the book considering the Primers to not be insufficient replacement for an involved parent, which is an easy argument to make, but does not mean the book thinks they are bad.

jonathanyc 9y ago

Strange that you are getting downvoted. The second half of Diamond Age is all about how Hackworth’s manipulated version of the book, given to the Chinese orphan girls, causes them to grow up into educated and skilled robots who need a strong external leader in the form of Nell. Nell’s success comes from the fact that she was lucky enough to also have strong role models. This should strike even more alarm bells at a time where we are worrying about the pernicious effects of social media and maliciously targeted material (including material targeted to children).

Jtsummers 9y ago
I upvoted them. My question was legitimate, because I'd forgotten about this part: > the Chinese orphan girls, causes them to grow up into educated and skilled robots who need a strong external leader in the form of Nell. They're capable, skilled individuals with no individuality. At once a positive (work well together) and a negative (seemingly require external leadership to direct their efforts). So a downside to the mass adoption of the book.

ddingus 9y ago

Indeed. Honestly, this is all human work. Rather than try to take all the value out of doing it, we really should embrace doing it, and fund those willing to do the work. Sure, not all of them will be stellar, but some will be. That's worth a lot. Seems to me the biggest benefit tech has brought us is so much information access that many only need guidance, experience, to be challenged, mentored. I give back to young people in this way every chance I get. Right now, it's hard, but it's not always hard. Most of those people have come back to say thanks. It helped. They are on a path, chasing after it, whatever it is for them. Good as it gets right now, IMHO.