7 ms·

Personally, I find my smartphone addiction gets worse when I turn off all notifications. Because then FOMO takes over and I spend tons of time digging into apps

by yosito 9y ago

Personally, I find my smartphone addiction gets worse when I turn off all notifications. Because then FOMO takes over and I spend tons of time digging into apps to make sure I didn't "miss anything". For me, it works much better to intentionally choose the notifications I get to be the things I really want to be interrupted by. I wish there were an AI or human secretary who could make those judgements on a per-notification basis with my best interests in mind, but that doesn't seem to be a realistic option at my income level. Another thing I do to limit my phone's dopamine rush is to delete all of the social media apps from my phone and only access them via a browser. mbasic.facebook.com is significantly less addictive that the app, while still being useful. Sometimes when I really need a break, I'll create a block list in the "Restrictions" settings on my iPhone and block Facebook, Reddit, Twitter and HN completely. I wish that there was a way for someone else to be able to remotely manage those restrictions for me, so I could uninstall all of the time-suck apps from my phone and only re-install them by getting permission from a friend who could help me honor my intentions.

amgutier 9y ago
Limiting FOMO was a large part of the appeal for a smartwatch to me. I could easily triage notification and dismiss from my wrist without the ability to get lost in an infinite scrolling list of whatever. The few times when it was an actionable notification, the phone came out to respond, but for most notifications, they are read and ignored. Now that I don't wear my android watch daily, I find myself with my phone on my desk or table more. The fear of missing important notifications makes me more obsessed with all notifications.
fragmede 9y ago
There are various apps to try and promote healthy levels of smartphone engagement. Eg in Forest (iOS and Android, no affiliation)[0] you plant a tree and it will grow with time, but will wither away the more you play with Facebook. It will occasionally notify in case you get lost in facebooklandia. If you object to that particular implementation, the point is there's a usage API in case you'd like to write your own app. [0] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=cc.forestapp https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=cc.forestapp
- thanatropism 9y ago
  I don't have the facebook app, will this detect if I use it in the browser?
  - egypturnash 9y ago
    From the app's site: "Whenever you want to focus, plant a tree. The tree will grow in the following time. The tree will be killed if you leave this app." So probably, yeah. I assume there is some point at which the tree won't be killed since it goes on to talk about keeping a forest of trees representing stretches of time not using your phone to do anything other than run this app - hitting up its app store page describes it as a pomodoro timer, so about 25min gets you a tree. My inner paranoid says "wow, what a great way to get people to help you mine cryptocurrency" but I will choose to assume that they're happy with the money they're making by selling it for two bucks, plus the occasional "sunshine elixir" IAP.
mkirklions 9y ago
My problem is being bothered to check notifications over the course of hours when I'm programming. Snapchat, twitter, text message, facebook message. All while I'm trying to figure out why my middle-wear isnt working. I catch myself shitposting on instagram instead of running my app.
- mantas 9y ago
  Try Pomodoro time management approach
  - mkirklions 9y ago
    That isnt the issue. Its that I need my phone on, and Im getting slammed with notifications.
    - mantas 9y ago
      Try to view to it every 25 minutes (or whatever your preferred time slot is)?
wpietri 9y ago
Yeah, same. One other thing I do is have physically separate devices for work versus entertainment. A spare phone is my Twitter/Facebook phone. I have a separate laptop for watching videos, playing games, social media, and HN. (I also have a tablet for long-form reading: Kindle, Instapaper, The Economist etc.) It helps establish that there are separate modes, which limits FOMO for me.
- yosito 9y ago
  I've got a burner Nokia phone that I refer to as my "ground phone". Whenever I need a break from the cloud, I swap my SIM card into it. All it really has is texting and calling. It kind of works, but using it also means I have to give up some things that I consider essential practical tools like Google Maps, my full contacts list, my reminders, and my calendar. I really think there'd be a market for some kind of smartphone that has full utilitarian functionality but doesn't support and kind of distractions.
wpietri 9y ago
Let me ask the crowd. Would you use a browser plugin that eliminates newsfeeds? One of the things I struggle with is the endless novelty of a newsfeed. I can always scroll and get more. And then I can reload for another chance at finding something interesting. There are extensions that do this for Facebook alone, but I was thinking something more general. And something that's also clever about eliminating the way companies use notifications to for similar novelty-injection, rather than true notifications. I suspect I also need a "please temporarily show me the newsfeed" mode, possibly on some sort of time restriction, with mandatory delay, or requiring some boring work, so as to raise it from "compulsive response" to "considered choice", but still keeps people from removing the extension on the occasions they really need to see the feeds. Would you use it? And what services would be required?
- Klover 9y ago
  Sure I'm interested in such an extension! I like the delay idea. A minute delay to reflect upon your actions, or yourself or something. Of course one can simply disable the extension. I guess you'll need testing to see what kind of delay makes the target audience not jump to disable the extension. If you're serious about this, I can send you my mail address and see if I can help with parsing feedback or something!
- nixme 9y ago
  HabitLab for Chrome has this as a nudge.
  - wpietri 9y ago
    Ooh! I was not aware of this. Very interesting! Much more impressive than what I would have built. Thanks!
- citruscomputing 9y ago
  You might like the chrome extension "Delayed Gratification"[0]. I also use xTab[1] to limit my tab count to about 6 to prevent opening every link I come across. (The interesting ones go into my OneTab[2] to alleviate FOMO and so I know I can find them later, although I rarely need to.) [0] https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/delayed-gratification/ifhndomfnbmggdgodaicfebeggdphlcn?hl=en https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/delayed-gratificat... [1] https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/xtab/amddgdnlkmohapieeekfknakgdnpbleb?hl=en https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/xtab/amddgdnlkmoha... [2] https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/onetab/chphlpgkkbolifaimnlloiipkdnihall?hl=en https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/onetab/chphlpgkkbo...
jhoechtl 9y ago
Not for me. However I seem to differ from may orhers who agree with you that I am not curious enough to miss the kitten posted next door nor the fancy meal plate of random strangers, intermingled by advertisment or is it already the other way round? Without these notifications I stay more focused and get less stressed.
- marpstar 9y ago
  Same here. I don't need a notification for every single "like" I get on Twitter/Instagram. In fact, it's similarly rewarding when I come back to the app and see a bunch of notifications waiting, knowing that they didn't distract me.
  - zem 9y ago
    even in terms of sheer dopamine, i find it rewarding to see a bunch of new notifications at once. to me push notifications feel more like an annoyance than a dopamine hit. i keep them turned on for sms because it's useful as a way to contact me immediately, but they're off for everything else, including email. (i never turned them on for twitter or facebook because i discovered back in the 90s that i was happier turning them off for email)
    - Lionsion 9y ago
      > even in terms of sheer dopamine, i find it rewarding to see a bunch of new notifications at once. to me push notifications feel more like an annoyance than a dopamine hit. The social networks understand this. I've read that they have algorithms that will batch and spread out your dopamine hits for maximum re-enforcement effect.
    - freehunter 9y ago
      >i find it rewarding to see a bunch of new notifications at once My wife wonders why I scan all my groceries at the store and then enter my loyalty card instead of doing it up-front as the system asks for. It's because if I see the price read $130 and then I enter the card and it drops to $110, it feels like I came out ahead. Even though it's going to be the same number.
agumonkey 9y ago
You stopped half way. when you put your phone off notification, you have to make that final step to put your mind too. I consider this (I have it too) to be almost full fledged clinical addiction. It toys with your mind and distort your life in unhealthy ways.
Skylled 9y ago
I started on this path recently with email by using the Astro app, and only getting notifications for "Priority Emails" which are intelligently chosen.
- codq 9y ago
  Inbox by Gmail does this, too. It's fantastic.
Spooky23 9y ago
The key thing is to break the cycle where Facebook (or other attention generating machines) is the personal personal equivalent of O365 or GSuite at home. Never, ever, never use the app and you've solved 80% of your problem, because you don't have this external force trying to corrupt your decisionmaking. Not only will you not be dealing with their stalking draining your battery, but you'll get rid of the FOMO thing. Visit the site every couple of days for the events or whatever other excuse keeps you on there. You'll figure out that you're missing nothing, although Facebook in particular will get increasingly desperate and try to hook you in via bullshit emails, etc. Once you get bad/abusive actors away from you, you'll find that your phone has robust notification and other mechanisms to help you get productive notifications.
- sundvor 9y ago
  I find it helps to access Facebook purely through their website, and just use their Messenger Lite app for messaging. This solves a lot of issues.
gascan 9y ago
Have you tried setting up silent notifications for the things you actually care about, and muting the rest? E.g. I get silent notifications for my personal email, which means I'm never tempted to refresh my inbox but I'm also not interrupted. It's important though to tightly control the notifications such that you get them only for things you actually care about. E.g., unsubscribe from any & all mailing lists you don't care about.
driverdan 9y ago
> Because then FOMO takes over This is the real problem, not the phone or its apps. You need to eliminate FOMO from your life. You'll be much happier for it. I don't have a recommendation on how to do that. For me I came to the realization and acceptance that there is always more. More work, more knowledge, more news, more parties, more potential friends, more opportunities, etc. It never ends and it's impossible to know or participate in it all. If you find yourself having anxiety from that thought you might want to see a psychologist.
- skellera 9y ago
  Meditation is good for this. Being aware of those thoughts and understanding why you feel it can help lessen the addiction. You may even find out you don’t care but you’ve trained yourself to. Everyone’s different but I think meditation can help some aspect of their life.
- dasyatidprime 9y ago
  You'll be much happier for it, but can you afford it? If you've got the kind of social life and communication you need, great. And I agree that many people who are in an accidental too-much-FOMO situation probably didn't need all the extra tweets and whatnot flung their way and it's mostly junk. In that case, just turning most of it off is a reasonable idea. But if you're in a position where the communities you need to be making more of an effort with use fast-moving, presenceless platforms for most of their socialization (Telegram, Twitter, etc.—maybe even, say, Slack?), good luck snagging those limited opportunities to learn which people to get to know better or get a word in on something important without constantly checking everything. (This might be a good argument to not do that for your next community!) The idea of more closely regulating the feeling so that it's not overdriven and occupying your whole mindset is still relevant, but it takes on quite a different form if you can't actually afford to check out of the fast side; you have to do a trickier balancing act.
  - jschwartzi 9y ago
    Maybe you need to find different communities. Being part of something isn't a need, it's a want, and you either accept that you want to be there and take the good with the bad, or you accept that you don't like the bad and give up on the good.
627467 9y ago
> Because then FOMO takes over Others have mentioned this is a separate issue from the smartphone (although smartphones to make it easier for us to enable FOMO). In my experience (most, if not all) FOMO disappeared in my early thirties and once I gained a more settled life. And while I do still check HN, twitter-lists daily (usually more than once a day when commuting, or having a break) I have noticed how on a busy day (or a weekend day), I completely forget about that. Maybe age, and changes in lifestyle have been most responsible for this, but I also find that I'm less impressed by new stuff now than I used to be, so I'm much less likely to feel that I'm missing something out.

by yosito 9y ago

amgutier 9y ago

Limiting FOMO was a large part of the appeal for a smartwatch to me. I could easily triage notification and dismiss from my wrist without the ability to get lost in an infinite scrolling list of whatever. The few times when it was an actionable notification, the phone came out to respond, but for most notifications, they are read and ignored. Now that I don't wear my android watch daily, I find myself with my phone on my desk or table more. The fear of missing important notifications makes me more obsessed with all notifications.

fragmede 9y ago

There are various apps to try and promote healthy levels of smartphone engagement. Eg in Forest (iOS and Android, no affiliation)[0] you plant a tree and it will grow with time, but will wither away the more you play with Facebook. It will occasionally notify in case you get lost in facebooklandia. If you object to that particular implementation, the point is there's a usage API in case you'd like to write your own app. [0] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=cc.forestapp https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=cc.forestapp

thanatropism 9y ago
I don't have the facebook app, will this detect if I use it in the browser?
- egypturnash 9y ago
  From the app's site: "Whenever you want to focus, plant a tree. The tree will grow in the following time. The tree will be killed if you leave this app." So probably, yeah. I assume there is some point at which the tree won't be killed since it goes on to talk about keeping a forest of trees representing stretches of time not using your phone to do anything other than run this app - hitting up its app store page describes it as a pomodoro timer, so about 25min gets you a tree. My inner paranoid says "wow, what a great way to get people to help you mine cryptocurrency" but I will choose to assume that they're happy with the money they're making by selling it for two bucks, plus the occasional "sunshine elixir" IAP.

mkirklions 9y ago

My problem is being bothered to check notifications over the course of hours when I'm programming. Snapchat, twitter, text message, facebook message. All while I'm trying to figure out why my middle-wear isnt working. I catch myself shitposting on instagram instead of running my app.

mantas 9y ago
Try Pomodoro time management approach
- mkirklions 9y ago
  That isnt the issue. Its that I need my phone on, and Im getting slammed with notifications.
  - mantas 9y ago
    Try to view to it every 25 minutes (or whatever your preferred time slot is)?

wpietri 9y ago

Yeah, same. One other thing I do is have physically separate devices for work versus entertainment. A spare phone is my Twitter/Facebook phone. I have a separate laptop for watching videos, playing games, social media, and HN. (I also have a tablet for long-form reading: Kindle, Instapaper, The Economist etc.) It helps establish that there are separate modes, which limits FOMO for me.

yosito 9y ago
I've got a burner Nokia phone that I refer to as my "ground phone". Whenever I need a break from the cloud, I swap my SIM card into it. All it really has is texting and calling. It kind of works, but using it also means I have to give up some things that I consider essential practical tools like Google Maps, my full contacts list, my reminders, and my calendar. I really think there'd be a market for some kind of smartphone that has full utilitarian functionality but doesn't support and kind of distractions.

wpietri 9y ago

Let me ask the crowd. Would you use a browser plugin that eliminates newsfeeds? One of the things I struggle with is the endless novelty of a newsfeed. I can always scroll and get more. And then I can reload for another chance at finding something interesting. There are extensions that do this for Facebook alone, but I was thinking something more general. And something that's also clever about eliminating the way companies use notifications to for similar novelty-injection, rather than true notifications. I suspect I also need a "please temporarily show me the newsfeed" mode, possibly on some sort of time restriction, with mandatory delay, or requiring some boring work, so as to raise it from "compulsive response" to "considered choice", but still keeps people from removing the extension on the occasions they really need to see the feeds. Would you use it? And what services would be required?

Klover 9y ago
Sure I'm interested in such an extension! I like the delay idea. A minute delay to reflect upon your actions, or yourself or something. Of course one can simply disable the extension. I guess you'll need testing to see what kind of delay makes the target audience not jump to disable the extension. If you're serious about this, I can send you my mail address and see if I can help with parsing feedback or something!
nixme 9y ago
HabitLab for Chrome has this as a nudge.
- wpietri 9y ago
  Ooh! I was not aware of this. Very interesting! Much more impressive than what I would have built. Thanks!
citruscomputing 9y ago
You might like the chrome extension "Delayed Gratification"[0]. I also use xTab[1] to limit my tab count to about 6 to prevent opening every link I come across. (The interesting ones go into my OneTab[2] to alleviate FOMO and so I know I can find them later, although I rarely need to.) [0] https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/delayed-gratification/ifhndomfnbmggdgodaicfebeggdphlcn?hl=en https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/delayed-gratificat... [1] https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/xtab/amddgdnlkmohapieeekfknakgdnpbleb?hl=en https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/xtab/amddgdnlkmoha... [2] https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/onetab/chphlpgkkbolifaimnlloiipkdnihall?hl=en https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/onetab/chphlpgkkbo...

jhoechtl 9y ago

Not for me. However I seem to differ from may orhers who agree with you that I am not curious enough to miss the kitten posted next door nor the fancy meal plate of random strangers, intermingled by advertisment or is it already the other way round? Without these notifications I stay more focused and get less stressed.

marpstar 9y ago
Same here. I don't need a notification for every single "like" I get on Twitter/Instagram. In fact, it's similarly rewarding when I come back to the app and see a bunch of notifications waiting, knowing that they didn't distract me.
- zem 9y ago
  even in terms of sheer dopamine, i find it rewarding to see a bunch of new notifications at once. to me push notifications feel more like an annoyance than a dopamine hit. i keep them turned on for sms because it's useful as a way to contact me immediately, but they're off for everything else, including email. (i never turned them on for twitter or facebook because i discovered back in the 90s that i was happier turning them off for email)
  - Lionsion 9y ago
    > even in terms of sheer dopamine, i find it rewarding to see a bunch of new notifications at once. to me push notifications feel more like an annoyance than a dopamine hit. The social networks understand this. I've read that they have algorithms that will batch and spread out your dopamine hits for maximum re-enforcement effect.
  - freehunter 9y ago
    >i find it rewarding to see a bunch of new notifications at once My wife wonders why I scan all my groceries at the store and then enter my loyalty card instead of doing it up-front as the system asks for. It's because if I see the price read $130 and then I enter the card and it drops to $110, it feels like I came out ahead. Even though it's going to be the same number.

agumonkey 9y ago

You stopped half way. when you put your phone off notification, you have to make that final step to put your mind too. I consider this (I have it too) to be almost full fledged clinical addiction. It toys with your mind and distort your life in unhealthy ways.

Skylled 9y ago

I started on this path recently with email by using the Astro app, and only getting notifications for "Priority Emails" which are intelligently chosen.

codq 9y ago
Inbox by Gmail does this, too. It's fantastic.

Spooky23 9y ago

The key thing is to break the cycle where Facebook (or other attention generating machines) is the personal personal equivalent of O365 or GSuite at home. Never, ever, never use the app and you've solved 80% of your problem, because you don't have this external force trying to corrupt your decisionmaking. Not only will you not be dealing with their stalking draining your battery, but you'll get rid of the FOMO thing. Visit the site every couple of days for the events or whatever other excuse keeps you on there. You'll figure out that you're missing nothing, although Facebook in particular will get increasingly desperate and try to hook you in via bullshit emails, etc. Once you get bad/abusive actors away from you, you'll find that your phone has robust notification and other mechanisms to help you get productive notifications.

sundvor 9y ago
I find it helps to access Facebook purely through their website, and just use their Messenger Lite app for messaging. This solves a lot of issues.

gascan 9y ago

Have you tried setting up silent notifications for the things you actually care about, and muting the rest? E.g. I get silent notifications for my personal email, which means I'm never tempted to refresh my inbox but I'm also not interrupted. It's important though to tightly control the notifications such that you get them only for things you actually care about. E.g., unsubscribe from any & all mailing lists you don't care about.

driverdan 9y ago

> Because then FOMO takes over This is the real problem, not the phone or its apps. You need to eliminate FOMO from your life. You'll be much happier for it. I don't have a recommendation on how to do that. For me I came to the realization and acceptance that there is always more. More work, more knowledge, more news, more parties, more potential friends, more opportunities, etc. It never ends and it's impossible to know or participate in it all. If you find yourself having anxiety from that thought you might want to see a psychologist.

skellera 9y ago
Meditation is good for this. Being aware of those thoughts and understanding why you feel it can help lessen the addiction. You may even find out you don’t care but you’ve trained yourself to. Everyone’s different but I think meditation can help some aspect of their life.
dasyatidprime 9y ago
You'll be much happier for it, but can you afford it? If you've got the kind of social life and communication you need, great. And I agree that many people who are in an accidental too-much-FOMO situation probably didn't need all the extra tweets and whatnot flung their way and it's mostly junk. In that case, just turning most of it off is a reasonable idea. But if you're in a position where the communities you need to be making more of an effort with use fast-moving, presenceless platforms for most of their socialization (Telegram, Twitter, etc.—maybe even, say, Slack?), good luck snagging those limited opportunities to learn which people to get to know better or get a word in on something important without constantly checking everything. (This might be a good argument to not do that for your next community!) The idea of more closely regulating the feeling so that it's not overdriven and occupying your whole mindset is still relevant, but it takes on quite a different form if you can't actually afford to check out of the fast side; you have to do a trickier balancing act.
- jschwartzi 9y ago
  Maybe you need to find different communities. Being part of something isn't a need, it's a want, and you either accept that you want to be there and take the good with the bad, or you accept that you don't like the bad and give up on the good.

627467 9y ago

> Because then FOMO takes over Others have mentioned this is a separate issue from the smartphone (although smartphones to make it easier for us to enable FOMO). In my experience (most, if not all) FOMO disappeared in my early thirties and once I gained a more settled life. And while I do still check HN, twitter-lists daily (usually more than once a day when commuting, or having a break) I have noticed how on a busy day (or a weekend day), I completely forget about that. Maybe age, and changes in lifestyle have been most responsible for this, but I also find that I'm less impressed by new stuff now than I used to be, so I'm much less likely to feel that I'm missing something out.