5 ms·

Private prisons and munitions manufacturers, too. Your general point speaks to a major source of corruption in the United States, which is often glossed over w

Private prisons and munitions manufacturers, too. Your general point speaks to a major source of corruption in the United States, which is often glossed over when well-meaning people push for increased government spending that will go to service providers rather than recipients directly, and is IMHO a vastly underappreciated argument in support of UBI.

dalbasal 9y ago
Dunno if it's underappreciated. I appreciate it for this reason, and similar ones. I assume this is why the idea resonated/s with the likes of friedman and also left-libertarian leaning thinkers. I don't think all problems can be solved quite this way, and I don't fundamentally have a problem with secondary currencies as an instrument, as long as they work good. In this case, taking the premise as is (food stamps should exist and apps should exist to make them work better), what you inevitably have is an artificial market. It's not impossible to have a core system onto which independent developers can build apps.
- lr4444lr 9y ago
  Incidental to your point about apps, I wonder if Propel can't deliver a devastating blow with a digital records FOIA request. Conduent will fight it tooth and nail, and it may be worth Propel's while to put some professional legal help on it, but since the data is being paid for by the taxpayer, as long as it can be redacted so that personal information isn't shared (which Propel could be required to pay for), Conduent may have no recourse to keep their data under lock and key. App users could be shown how to request their primary key or some other permissible identifier under FOIA from Conduent, and then they'd be reduced to a mere primary data warehousing and collection outfit.
  - mcherm 9y ago
    > I wonder if Propel can't deliver a devastating blow with a digital records FOIA request I wouldn't think so. Propel needs current data, and taking a month or two to respond to each FOIA request would make the data untimely even if the FOIA request is deemed to be valid. > App users could be shown how to request their primary key or some other permissible identifier under FOIA from Conduent, and then they'd be reduced to a mere primary data warehousing and collection outfit. If I understand the article correctly, Propel already knows the individual's primary key and their app was working fine. Then Conduent stopped responding to API calls from Propel's app. Knowing the ID doesn't help with that problem.
jadedhacker 9y ago
One big answer to the unbridled graft in public-private partnerships is to nationalize such services and run them as public enterprises.
- ch4s3 9y ago
  Well, that solves one kind of graft and opens the door to another. The history of Petrobras is a great example of the kind of corruption that can happen in state run enterprises. Chinese SOEs are another example. Transparency, audits, and open procurement processes are probably more useful at fighting graft than nationalization.
- djrogers 9y ago
  True, but that results in other problems - lack of accountabbility and control. Perfect example is the VA. I think the ultimate solution is to simplify access to, and limit govnerment control of, all entitlement programs. The ultimate expression of that would be UBI - I'd even be in favor of a means-tested phase-out of the UBI. After that's done, all we gotta do is fix the tax code...
  - azinman2 9y ago
    How is that a solution for, say, telecom? Or space travel? (Not touching the other GOP hot topics here...)
  - adamsea 9y ago
    According to Merriam-Webster, 'entitlement' can mean: 1: a : the state or condition of being entitled : right b : a right to benefits specified especially by law or contract 2 : belief that one is deserving of or entitled to certain privileges 3 : a government program providing benefits to members of a specified group; also : funds supporting or distributed by such a program https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/entitlement https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/entitlement
  - AnthonyMouse 9y ago
    > I'd even be in favor of a means-tested phase-out of the UBI. This is a bad idea. A phase-out is indistinguishable from a tax in the same amount, but it harder to reason about and consequently tends to be implemented incoherently. Suppose you have $10,000 basic income with a 20% phase-out rate and a progressive income tax with a 15% tax rate up to $50,000 and 25% thereafter. Then what you really have is a $10,000 UBI and an income tax of 35% up to $50,000 and 25% thereafter. Probably not what you wanted, right? Much better to have a $10,000 UBI with no phase out and a flat 30% tax rate. Which has the added benefit of vastly simplifying the tax system -- no need for multiple rates and all the complexity and opportunities for tax avoidance that go with them.
dsfyu404ed 9y ago
If you're ignorant of the cons of the thing you're pushing for are you still well meaning? Well meaning people support all sorts of dumb things because they seem like the right thing to do at the time.

dalbasal 9y ago

Dunno if it's underappreciated. I appreciate it for this reason, and similar ones. I assume this is why the idea resonated/s with the likes of friedman and also left-libertarian leaning thinkers. I don't think all problems can be solved quite this way, and I don't fundamentally have a problem with secondary currencies as an instrument, as long as they work good. In this case, taking the premise as is (food stamps should exist and apps should exist to make them work better), what you inevitably have is an artificial market. It's not impossible to have a core system onto which independent developers can build apps.

lr4444lr 9y ago
Incidental to your point about apps, I wonder if Propel can't deliver a devastating blow with a digital records FOIA request. Conduent will fight it tooth and nail, and it may be worth Propel's while to put some professional legal help on it, but since the data is being paid for by the taxpayer, as long as it can be redacted so that personal information isn't shared (which Propel could be required to pay for), Conduent may have no recourse to keep their data under lock and key. App users could be shown how to request their primary key or some other permissible identifier under FOIA from Conduent, and then they'd be reduced to a mere primary data warehousing and collection outfit.
- mcherm 9y ago
  > I wonder if Propel can't deliver a devastating blow with a digital records FOIA request I wouldn't think so. Propel needs current data, and taking a month or two to respond to each FOIA request would make the data untimely even if the FOIA request is deemed to be valid. > App users could be shown how to request their primary key or some other permissible identifier under FOIA from Conduent, and then they'd be reduced to a mere primary data warehousing and collection outfit. If I understand the article correctly, Propel already knows the individual's primary key and their app was working fine. Then Conduent stopped responding to API calls from Propel's app. Knowing the ID doesn't help with that problem.

jadedhacker 9y ago

One big answer to the unbridled graft in public-private partnerships is to nationalize such services and run them as public enterprises.

ch4s3 9y ago
Well, that solves one kind of graft and opens the door to another. The history of Petrobras is a great example of the kind of corruption that can happen in state run enterprises. Chinese SOEs are another example. Transparency, audits, and open procurement processes are probably more useful at fighting graft than nationalization.
djrogers 9y ago
True, but that results in other problems - lack of accountabbility and control. Perfect example is the VA. I think the ultimate solution is to simplify access to, and limit govnerment control of, all entitlement programs. The ultimate expression of that would be UBI - I'd even be in favor of a means-tested phase-out of the UBI. After that's done, all we gotta do is fix the tax code...
- azinman2 9y ago
  How is that a solution for, say, telecom? Or space travel? (Not touching the other GOP hot topics here...)
- adamsea 9y ago
  According to Merriam-Webster, 'entitlement' can mean: 1: a : the state or condition of being entitled : right b : a right to benefits specified especially by law or contract 2 : belief that one is deserving of or entitled to certain privileges 3 : a government program providing benefits to members of a specified group; also : funds supporting or distributed by such a program https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/entitlement https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/entitlement
- AnthonyMouse 9y ago
  > I'd even be in favor of a means-tested phase-out of the UBI. This is a bad idea. A phase-out is indistinguishable from a tax in the same amount, but it harder to reason about and consequently tends to be implemented incoherently. Suppose you have $10,000 basic income with a 20% phase-out rate and a progressive income tax with a 15% tax rate up to $50,000 and 25% thereafter. Then what you really have is a $10,000 UBI and an income tax of 35% up to $50,000 and 25% thereafter. Probably not what you wanted, right? Much better to have a $10,000 UBI with no phase out and a flat 30% tax rate. Which has the added benefit of vastly simplifying the tax system -- no need for multiple rates and all the complexity and opportunities for tax avoidance that go with them.

dsfyu404ed 9y ago

If you're ignorant of the cons of the thing you're pushing for are you still well meaning? Well meaning people support all sorts of dumb things because they seem like the right thing to do at the time.