3 ms·

>>There will always be government created markets. Maybe, maybe not, but that was not my point. The Goal should be to eliminate as many of those as possible

by syshum 9y ago

>>There will always be government created markets. Maybe, maybe not, but that was not my point. The Goal should be to eliminate as many of those as possible. >Who else should pay for infrastructure for example? Depends on what infrastruture you are speaking of, Roads are often an example but you do understand there are private roads, probably more than you think. "But who will build the roads" is a tired dead horse in libertarian circles, that problem has been solved countless times >Do you want to privatize all of that? Again that depends on what you mean by "Privatize", I believe goods and services are best when the consumers that consume them directly pay for them. My goal would be to have the payment for goods and services as close to the consumption of those goods and services as possible. The more people and organizations you put between a consumer and vendor the more quality suffers, and prices raise.

vertex-four 9y ago
There's many small private roads, but all the major ones you drive on every day to get to and from your work once you're away from your suburb? Those are public, and unlike the ones that are in your cul-de-sac, they're used by many many people, not just the people who live on the same street.
- syshum 9y ago
  So it is your belief there are no major roads that are private? and there is no way to fund major roads in a private user fee way?
- tssva 9y ago
  > There's many small private roads, but all the major ones you drive on every day to get to and from your work once you're away from your suburb? Those are public, and unlike the ones that are in your cul-de-sac, they're used by many many people, not just the people who live on the same street. Does a 12.5 mile long 6 lane divided highway count as a major road? Because I drive on a privately owned one everyday to and from work.
  - vertex-four 9y ago
    Cool. I assume that's a toll road. Now let's say every single separate road you travel on was owned by a separate company - how would you pay your tolls? In cash, every 30 seconds? Would you have to install a tracking device on your car that any road owner can tap into? Who'd control access to such a thing? How would you ensure that they don't display monopoly-like behaviour, like the identity verification/credit check/etc companies of today? Could the road owner outside your work or your home jack up the prices to make it prohibitively expensive to take your car there? How'd you prevent that? How would you ensure that somebody didn't buy up all the major roads into or out of a city and make it prohibitively expensive for poor people to access the city? How would you ensure that somebody didn't sit on their monopoly on the route to or from wherever you need to go, and refuse to perform repairs? The whole thing could, potentially, work for the countryside, where land is cheap and plentiful and if you don't mind wasting economic production on duplicating and triplicating and quadrupling routes just to make your fantasy work out, it might work. Except wait... America's got a privatised industry which theoretically competes with road travel already and has many of the same restrictions - the freight rail industry - and when's the last railway that got built? Apparently it's prohibitively expensive to buy the land.
    - syshum 9y ago
      >>and when's the last railway that got built? Apparently it's prohibitively expensive to buy the land. Umm all the time and continually. Rail issues are not land prices, Transportation by rail has all kinds of other issue largely related to safety, government, and time not the price of land
- lightedman 9y ago
  "There's many small private roads, but all the major ones you drive on every day to get to and from your work once you're away from your suburb? Those are public" No, in fact many publicly-used roads are outright owned by foreign agents, both toll and non-toll, as well as hundreds of specific truck trails that run throughout our wilderness. LR2000 is your friend.
jadedhacker 9y ago
https://thenib.com/private-environmental-protection?t=recent https://thenib.com/private-environmental-protection?t=recent
- syshum 9y ago
  So your belief is private = Rich, and Government = Helping poor people? Because in reality the opposite is true, government mainly assists the rich not the poor Even programs like EBT have been shown to assist companies like Walmart a great deal. Smash the State, Eat the Rich (https://c4ss.org/content/30085 https://c4ss.org/content/30085)
  - zip1234 9y ago
    Governments tend to create places where there is a large amount of money available in a very non-egalitarian fashion. Look at the DC area--all the tax revenues from around the country is pumped there and supports an immense amount of people on 100k plus salaries. Another example is defense-industrial complex and military bases. Military bases contribute a LOT of money to local economies. That money doesn't ultimately come from the military base but from the population of the country as a whole. That's why senators make very strange, non-strategic decisions about base closures.

by syshum 9y ago

vertex-four 9y ago

There's many small private roads, but all the major ones you drive on every day to get to and from your work once you're away from your suburb? Those are public, and unlike the ones that are in your cul-de-sac, they're used by many many people, not just the people who live on the same street.

syshum 9y ago
So it is your belief there are no major roads that are private? and there is no way to fund major roads in a private user fee way?
tssva 9y ago
> There's many small private roads, but all the major ones you drive on every day to get to and from your work once you're away from your suburb? Those are public, and unlike the ones that are in your cul-de-sac, they're used by many many people, not just the people who live on the same street. Does a 12.5 mile long 6 lane divided highway count as a major road? Because I drive on a privately owned one everyday to and from work.
- vertex-four 9y ago
  Cool. I assume that's a toll road. Now let's say every single separate road you travel on was owned by a separate company - how would you pay your tolls? In cash, every 30 seconds? Would you have to install a tracking device on your car that any road owner can tap into? Who'd control access to such a thing? How would you ensure that they don't display monopoly-like behaviour, like the identity verification/credit check/etc companies of today? Could the road owner outside your work or your home jack up the prices to make it prohibitively expensive to take your car there? How'd you prevent that? How would you ensure that somebody didn't buy up all the major roads into or out of a city and make it prohibitively expensive for poor people to access the city? How would you ensure that somebody didn't sit on their monopoly on the route to or from wherever you need to go, and refuse to perform repairs? The whole thing could, potentially, work for the countryside, where land is cheap and plentiful and if you don't mind wasting economic production on duplicating and triplicating and quadrupling routes just to make your fantasy work out, it might work. Except wait... America's got a privatised industry which theoretically competes with road travel already and has many of the same restrictions - the freight rail industry - and when's the last railway that got built? Apparently it's prohibitively expensive to buy the land.
  - syshum 9y ago
    >>and when's the last railway that got built? Apparently it's prohibitively expensive to buy the land. Umm all the time and continually. Rail issues are not land prices, Transportation by rail has all kinds of other issue largely related to safety, government, and time not the price of land
lightedman 9y ago
"There's many small private roads, but all the major ones you drive on every day to get to and from your work once you're away from your suburb? Those are public" No, in fact many publicly-used roads are outright owned by foreign agents, both toll and non-toll, as well as hundreds of specific truck trails that run throughout our wilderness. LR2000 is your friend.

jadedhacker 9y ago

https://thenib.com/private-environmental-protection?t=recent https://thenib.com/private-environmental-protection?t=recent

syshum 9y ago
So your belief is private = Rich, and Government = Helping poor people? Because in reality the opposite is true, government mainly assists the rich not the poor Even programs like EBT have been shown to assist companies like Walmart a great deal. Smash the State, Eat the Rich (https://c4ss.org/content/30085 https://c4ss.org/content/30085)
- zip1234 9y ago
  Governments tend to create places where there is a large amount of money available in a very non-egalitarian fashion. Look at the DC area--all the tax revenues from around the country is pumped there and supports an immense amount of people on 100k plus salaries. Another example is defense-industrial complex and military bases. Military bases contribute a LOT of money to local economies. That money doesn't ultimately come from the military base but from the population of the country as a whole. That's why senators make very strange, non-strategic decisions about base closures.