8 ms·

I've posted this before: GDPR is good independent of any effects it has on competition. Governments already have the tools to deal with market dominance: antit

by IBM 8y ago

I've posted this before: GDPR is good independent of any effects it has on competition. Governments already have the tools to deal with market dominance: antitrust enforcement. The EC has three antitrust cases against Google. One decision has already been given, and the Android decision will be made sometime within the next few months. The Federal Cartel Office in Germany has opened a probe into Facebook [1][2]. [1] https://www.politico.eu/article/facebook-data-collection-could-be-an-antitrust-abuse-in-germany/ https://www.politico.eu/article/facebook-data-collection-cou... [2] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-facebook-privacy-germany/facebooks-hidden-data-haul-troubles-german-cartel-regulator-idUSKBN1HU108 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-facebook-privacy-germany/...

montrose 8y ago
Antitrust enforcement is not sufficient to protect against market consolidation caused by burdensome regulations. A company that can afford to comply with the regulations can squash competitors who can't without being a monopoly. And even companies that are declared monopolies benefit from burdensome regulations in the sense that people thinking of starting startups that might compete with them decide not to.
jakeogh 8y ago
Are there other instances where I can demand people's time without compensation? Where I can demand they forget something all the way down to the fact someone visited their location? I see this is as a move in the WOGPC.
- ballenf 8y ago
  Pressing the crosswalk button as a pedestrian and making traffic stop? In fact the law requires us to do many things for other people without compensation. Part of the give and take of living in society.
  - jakeogh 8y ago
    Interesting counterexample, if you have more I would love to hear them. Where I live, I am required to render help if someone needs water etc. I like that law very much. Back to your example: In one case, I can press the button and then cross or not (I could stand there all day pressing the button). Without getting into local law, I bet that attack is illegal in most places, I suspect it is where I live. In the GDPR case, I can press every button in an entire union, apparently every 40 days. EDIT: regarding response times, I found a breakdown: https://www.burges-salmon.com/news-and-insight/legal-updates/gdpr-subject-access-requests/ https://www.burges-salmon.com/news-and-insight/legal-updates... Obviously this kinda-example ignores the point about forced forgetting which will be interesting in many ways; the astroturf market for example.
    - chopin 8y ago
      GDPR allows you to ask reasonably. Repeated attempts to overwhelm the target are not allowed.
    - xearl 8y ago
      > I can press every button in an entire union, apparently every 40 days. In most cases that will be considered "repetitive" and "excessive" - Art. 12 (5) - and businesses will be allowed to charge for fully responding to your "button presses".
      - jakeogh 8y ago
        Is it legal to ask every GDPR subject company? Is there a way to accomplish that? How often is it OK to ask (all of them)? This is similar outlawing free speech and then blaming everyone else for not doing the same because free speech keeps leaking back across your borders. Non-EU corporations will get the intel business, and that's a good thing. A demonstration of why sovereignty is important in the WOGPC.
woolvalley 8y ago
A $100+ million revenue company has the capital to comply with GDPR. The 1-5 man bootstrapped start up does not. They will be in the 3 felonies a day type of non-compliance and hunted by bureaucrats looking for easy targets. Other countries have a philosophy of exempting small business from complicated regulations because of this. The EU tends to not do this. That is the fundamental issue and it has nothing to do with monopoly. Just like you need progressive taxation to not choke out the poor, you need progressive regulation to not choke out the small business.
- realusername 8y ago
  I did not see anything in GDPR which does not make sense to me, it looks like common sense applied to data management.(Edit: It's rare enough to have some legal text in IT which makes sense in real life, I'm surprised). I don't see why small businesses should be exempt for basic regulation, small businesses are not exempt from fire safety regulation either. > The 1-5 man bootstrapped start up does not. In my current company we are only two developers and we will comply with GDPR, it's going to take us a week or two worth of technical work, it's really not a big deal.
  - woolvalley 8y ago
    The GDPR seems easy, but I get a feeling you haven't tried to actually properly implement the GDPR regs, talking to lawyers and everything. If you have you'll see there is far more involved than you think. I wish it was easy as just manually looking for user data after an email, deleting it, and keeping that email request as part of the 'audit log'. And getting affirmative consent during signup. Most small businesses would be fine with something that casual. EDIT: If you guys winged it by actually just reading the regulations and winging it, you probably did something wrong.
    - rectang 8y ago
      The GDPR is inconvenient with many of the shady business models popular among web-centric companies. In the long run, it's good for all of us if those business models are discouraged.

by IBM 8y ago

montrose 8y ago

Antitrust enforcement is not sufficient to protect against market consolidation caused by burdensome regulations. A company that can afford to comply with the regulations can squash competitors who can't without being a monopoly. And even companies that are declared monopolies benefit from burdensome regulations in the sense that people thinking of starting startups that might compete with them decide not to.

jakeogh 8y ago

Are there other instances where I can demand people's time without compensation? Where I can demand they forget something all the way down to the fact someone visited their location? I see this is as a move in the WOGPC.

ballenf 8y ago
Pressing the crosswalk button as a pedestrian and making traffic stop? In fact the law requires us to do many things for other people without compensation. Part of the give and take of living in society.
- jakeogh 8y ago
  Interesting counterexample, if you have more I would love to hear them. Where I live, I am required to render help if someone needs water etc. I like that law very much. Back to your example: In one case, I can press the button and then cross or not (I could stand there all day pressing the button). Without getting into local law, I bet that attack is illegal in most places, I suspect it is where I live. In the GDPR case, I can press every button in an entire union, apparently every 40 days. EDIT: regarding response times, I found a breakdown: https://www.burges-salmon.com/news-and-insight/legal-updates/gdpr-subject-access-requests/ https://www.burges-salmon.com/news-and-insight/legal-updates... Obviously this kinda-example ignores the point about forced forgetting which will be interesting in many ways; the astroturf market for example.
  - chopin 8y ago
    GDPR allows you to ask reasonably. Repeated attempts to overwhelm the target are not allowed.
  - xearl 8y ago
    > I can press every button in an entire union, apparently every 40 days. In most cases that will be considered "repetitive" and "excessive" - Art. 12 (5) - and businesses will be allowed to charge for fully responding to your "button presses".
    - jakeogh 8y ago
      Is it legal to ask every GDPR subject company? Is there a way to accomplish that? How often is it OK to ask (all of them)? This is similar outlawing free speech and then blaming everyone else for not doing the same because free speech keeps leaking back across your borders. Non-EU corporations will get the intel business, and that's a good thing. A demonstration of why sovereignty is important in the WOGPC.

woolvalley 8y ago

A $100+ million revenue company has the capital to comply with GDPR. The 1-5 man bootstrapped start up does not. They will be in the 3 felonies a day type of non-compliance and hunted by bureaucrats looking for easy targets. Other countries have a philosophy of exempting small business from complicated regulations because of this. The EU tends to not do this. That is the fundamental issue and it has nothing to do with monopoly. Just like you need progressive taxation to not choke out the poor, you need progressive regulation to not choke out the small business.

realusername 8y ago
I did not see anything in GDPR which does not make sense to me, it looks like common sense applied to data management.(Edit: It's rare enough to have some legal text in IT which makes sense in real life, I'm surprised). I don't see why small businesses should be exempt for basic regulation, small businesses are not exempt from fire safety regulation either. > The 1-5 man bootstrapped start up does not. In my current company we are only two developers and we will comply with GDPR, it's going to take us a week or two worth of technical work, it's really not a big deal.
- woolvalley 8y ago
  The GDPR seems easy, but I get a feeling you haven't tried to actually properly implement the GDPR regs, talking to lawyers and everything. If you have you'll see there is far more involved than you think. I wish it was easy as just manually looking for user data after an email, deleting it, and keeping that email request as part of the 'audit log'. And getting affirmative consent during signup. Most small businesses would be fine with something that casual. EDIT: If you guys winged it by actually just reading the regulations and winging it, you probably did something wrong.
  - rectang 8y ago
    The GDPR is inconvenient with many of the shady business models popular among web-centric companies. In the long run, it's good for all of us if those business models are discouraged.