5 ms·

>Instead of Mac, use GNU/Linux. Bought my first Macbook pro after being a linux/ThinkPad guy since 2008. I'm probably never going back to Linux on a laptop. I

by na85 9y ago

>Instead of Mac, use GNU/Linux. Bought my first Macbook pro after being a linux/ThinkPad guy since 2008. I'm probably never going back to Linux on a laptop. I actually have working suspend and resume, plus it's Unix-like under the hood. Trackpad actually works without a bunch of ugly hacks since they deprecated synaptics drivers. no systemd, etc. I spend almost no time fiddling with my system nowadays. I want to use my lap top, not just configure it every time systemd breaks something and I have to switch distros or window managers to get away from it. I still like Linux on the server but in my opinion quality ux requires someone to get paid to do the un glamorous work like fixing compatibility issues and corner cases.

JoshMnem 9y ago
When was the last time you bought a ThinkPad? This is my third one and suspend works. The Trackpad is great, with three buttons. 24 Gb of RAM, 11+ hour battery life in Linux, and a 4-year at-home next-day repair plan. It was $1,900 including tax, shipping, and support. Macs are much more expensive for worse specs. This computer "just worked" out of the box, and there is full freedom to tinker with the system. I think the industry should get away from the idea that everything needs to work out of the box anyway.
- jeofken 9y ago
  Im actually going to make the order for a new thinkpad today, to run NixOs on. What specs and model do you have? Are there any tips, or something you wish you knew? My config reaches >€2500 quite fast.
  - JoshMnem 9y ago
    I got a T460 with i7-6600U CPU @ 2.60GHz. I always research the models online before buying: "<make> <model> <distro>". I'm running Ubuntu 16.04 on it at the moment. The next-day at-home support has been great. They have come to my home and replaced motherboards on the kitchen table with no questions asked. It has two batteries, which added a little weight, but I rarely think about power outlets any more. I can't think of anything else, but if you have any specific questions let me know.
    - jeofken 9y ago
      Neat! This will be my first thinkpad since ~2005. I’ve been eyeing the X1Carbon. What made you select T460? Do you feel that it’s portable enough to bike/walk around with and use in cafes etc? I guess what I’m really wondering is, with all different models (7 different choices in the T series, and then X and P) how can you select one? I’m in analysis paralysis.
      - JoshMnem 9y ago
        I'm not familiar with the Carbon series. My other two Thinkpads were T-series, so I think I just started my search with what I knew. I walk a lot with this computer and work from cafes all the time. It could be lighter, but it's fine. I want to try NixOs, but haven't had time yet.
      - pimeys 9y ago
        You should ask more questions in /r/thinkpad[0]. But here's a quick summary for the models that matter for tech people: - T4XX = 14", T5XX = 15", X2XX = 12" - The middle number is the last number of the year (T460/X260: 2016, T470/X270: 2017 etc.). - The T-series has had three models per year, the normal with no ending letters that has an external battery, allows you to replace parts and is mainly meant as a durable corporate workhorse. The s-version is more for consumers, with usually better choices for panels and building material, but more integrated parts and less amount of maximum available memory; no replaceable external battery. The p-version means performance, so the laptop is bulkier but holds a faster 35W CPU. - P-series are workstations. The s-model holds a ULV CPU, but the normal P51 and P71 can have Xeon/Quadro level parts. They're either 15" or 17" and for some mysterious reason annoy everybody with an off-center keyboard and a numpad. - X1 Carbon is a 14" ultralight laptop with usually the best screens and best building materials. - From the consumer models, the only thing that matters is the Yoga series. Don't have any experience from those, but people seem to like them. [0] https://reddit.com/r/thinkpad https://reddit.com/r/thinkpad
        jeofken 9y ago
        I wish Lenovo would let me find this out somehow! Thank you - you have made it much clearer, and now I know I will buy a T with replaceable battery. I wish laptop makers (and ALL other business) would make less cluttered, less designed websites. Danluu.com is the prime example of great design for me. I wish I could have found your great comment without having to bother people on HN. Thank you!
  - sergiosgc 9y ago
    I have a 5th gen X1 Carbon. Great machine in every aspect but RAM, and runs Linux flawlessly. It has 8GB RAM, which is more than enough for Linux plus developer containers, but not quite enough for running VMs; and it is soldered to the motherboard and thus non-upgradeable. My setup cost ~1.5k€ (base setup plus larger NVRAM, better screen) although if you add touch screen, 3G and other bells and whistles you get to 3k€ pretty fast. I wouldn't add any hard requirement over the base machine.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- pnutjam 9y ago
  Dell Latitudes also work great with Linux, in my experience. They are pretty solid since that's the business line. Bonus, you can get cheap used ones or parts for quite awhile.
- tonyarkles 9y ago
  I love my "couple year old" ThinkPad. Relating to suspend, the only problem I have is that there seems to be some kind of window. If I close the lid and then remove the power within a couple of seconds, suspend fails and the machine continues to run in my backpack. If I unplug the power first, then close the lid, it suspends properly. I have a couple thoughts on how to debug it, but honestly... I haven't had the inclination to invest that much time in it, and the "unplug-then-close" habit has become so ingrained that I'm only burned by this about once every other month or so now.
skrause 9y ago
> no systemd, etc. systemd was very much inspired by macOS's launchd, they're very similar in many ways.
KozmoNau7 9y ago
I'm on my fourth Thinkpad (T42, T420, T440, now X220i) and all of them have worked perfectly with Linux, including suspend and hibernation.
olau 9y ago
"I spend almost no time fiddling with my system nowadays." And this is perhaps the main difference. You stopped tinkering. You can install a Linux distro aimed a people not interested in tinkering and it will likely just work. "... but in my opinion quality ux requires someone to get paid to do the un glamorous work like fixing compatibility issues and corner cases." There are in fact quite of bunch of people getting paid to fix compatibility issues and corner cases. Try buying hardware from a Linux-based vendor.
- Angostura 9y ago
  > And this is perhaps the main difference. You stopped tinkering. Or stopped tinkering with their work machine so that they could spend more time tinkering with things that they actually wanted to tinker with
- pnutjam 9y ago
  You should also stick to a workstation linux release. I'm a huge fan of OpenSUSE if you just want hardware to work, it has the hands down best hardware support of any release I've used. The only drawback is every wonky package out there is built for Ubuntu, for example Spotify's linux client. However, if you want a basic system that works, OpenSUSE is the way to go.
- na85 9y ago
  I stopped tinkering with my system configuration and started using it for the things I want to do as opposed to the things that get in my way. >You can install a Linux distro aimed a people not interested in tinkering and it will likely just work. Ubuntu didn't "just work". Is it aimed at tinkerers?
rimliu 9y ago
Nitpick — it's not Unix-like, it is Unix.
self_awareness 9y ago
I'm actually surprised you didn't like systemd, since it was modelled (in part) after launchd from macOS. Same for systemd utilities like logind; even the name was taken from macOS logind.
- na85 9y ago
  I find systemd to be an over engineered pile of trash that keeps infecting more and more of the Linux ecosystem because nobody wants to stand up to redhat and their push for more poetteringware
art4ur 9y ago
I haven't had a laptop that doesn't support suspend and resume in years. It's worth looking at again in 2018. It's gotten a lot better.
- hutzlibu 9y ago
  I also had many ... But allways mixed results. Soostly it worked, bu no allways. But I like to rely on it - and no loose da
O_H_E 9y ago
Interesting, I bought $200 Lenovo laptop: touchpad, suspend, and hibernate all work out of the box

by na85 9y ago

JoshMnem 9y ago

When was the last time you bought a ThinkPad? This is my third one and suspend works. The Trackpad is great, with three buttons. 24 Gb of RAM, 11+ hour battery life in Linux, and a 4-year at-home next-day repair plan. It was $1,900 including tax, shipping, and support. Macs are much more expensive for worse specs. This computer "just worked" out of the box, and there is full freedom to tinker with the system. I think the industry should get away from the idea that everything needs to work out of the box anyway.

jeofken 9y ago
Im actually going to make the order for a new thinkpad today, to run NixOs on. What specs and model do you have? Are there any tips, or something you wish you knew? My config reaches >€2500 quite fast.
- JoshMnem 9y ago
  I got a T460 with i7-6600U CPU @ 2.60GHz. I always research the models online before buying: "<make> <model> <distro>". I'm running Ubuntu 16.04 on it at the moment. The next-day at-home support has been great. They have come to my home and replaced motherboards on the kitchen table with no questions asked. It has two batteries, which added a little weight, but I rarely think about power outlets any more. I can't think of anything else, but if you have any specific questions let me know.
  - jeofken 9y ago
    Neat! This will be my first thinkpad since ~2005. I’ve been eyeing the X1Carbon. What made you select T460? Do you feel that it’s portable enough to bike/walk around with and use in cafes etc? I guess what I’m really wondering is, with all different models (7 different choices in the T series, and then X and P) how can you select one? I’m in analysis paralysis.
    - JoshMnem 9y ago
      I'm not familiar with the Carbon series. My other two Thinkpads were T-series, so I think I just started my search with what I knew. I walk a lot with this computer and work from cafes all the time. It could be lighter, but it's fine. I want to try NixOs, but haven't had time yet.
    - pimeys 9y ago
      You should ask more questions in /r/thinkpad[0]. But here's a quick summary for the models that matter for tech people: - T4XX = 14", T5XX = 15", X2XX = 12" - The middle number is the last number of the year (T460/X260: 2016, T470/X270: 2017 etc.). - The T-series has had three models per year, the normal with no ending letters that has an external battery, allows you to replace parts and is mainly meant as a durable corporate workhorse. The s-version is more for consumers, with usually better choices for panels and building material, but more integrated parts and less amount of maximum available memory; no replaceable external battery. The p-version means performance, so the laptop is bulkier but holds a faster 35W CPU. - P-series are workstations. The s-model holds a ULV CPU, but the normal P51 and P71 can have Xeon/Quadro level parts. They're either 15" or 17" and for some mysterious reason annoy everybody with an off-center keyboard and a numpad. - X1 Carbon is a 14" ultralight laptop with usually the best screens and best building materials. - From the consumer models, the only thing that matters is the Yoga series. Don't have any experience from those, but people seem to like them. [0] https://reddit.com/r/thinkpad https://reddit.com/r/thinkpad
      - jeofken 9y ago
        I wish Lenovo would let me find this out somehow! Thank you - you have made it much clearer, and now I know I will buy a T with replaceable battery. I wish laptop makers (and ALL other business) would make less cluttered, less designed websites. Danluu.com is the prime example of great design for me. I wish I could have found your great comment without having to bother people on HN. Thank you!
- sergiosgc 9y ago
  I have a 5th gen X1 Carbon. Great machine in every aspect but RAM, and runs Linux flawlessly. It has 8GB RAM, which is more than enough for Linux plus developer containers, but not quite enough for running VMs; and it is soldered to the motherboard and thus non-upgradeable. My setup cost ~1.5k€ (base setup plus larger NVRAM, better screen) although if you add touch screen, 3G and other bells and whistles you get to 3k€ pretty fast. I wouldn't add any hard requirement over the base machine.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
pnutjam 9y ago
Dell Latitudes also work great with Linux, in my experience. They are pretty solid since that's the business line. Bonus, you can get cheap used ones or parts for quite awhile.
tonyarkles 9y ago
I love my "couple year old" ThinkPad. Relating to suspend, the only problem I have is that there seems to be some kind of window. If I close the lid and then remove the power within a couple of seconds, suspend fails and the machine continues to run in my backpack. If I unplug the power first, then close the lid, it suspends properly. I have a couple thoughts on how to debug it, but honestly... I haven't had the inclination to invest that much time in it, and the "unplug-then-close" habit has become so ingrained that I'm only burned by this about once every other month or so now.

skrause 9y ago

> no systemd, etc. systemd was very much inspired by macOS's launchd, they're very similar in many ways.

KozmoNau7 9y ago

I'm on my fourth Thinkpad (T42, T420, T440, now X220i) and all of them have worked perfectly with Linux, including suspend and hibernation.

olau 9y ago

"I spend almost no time fiddling with my system nowadays." And this is perhaps the main difference. You stopped tinkering. You can install a Linux distro aimed a people not interested in tinkering and it will likely just work. "... but in my opinion quality ux requires someone to get paid to do the un glamorous work like fixing compatibility issues and corner cases." There are in fact quite of bunch of people getting paid to fix compatibility issues and corner cases. Try buying hardware from a Linux-based vendor.

Angostura 9y ago
> And this is perhaps the main difference. You stopped tinkering. Or stopped tinkering with their work machine so that they could spend more time tinkering with things that they actually wanted to tinker with
pnutjam 9y ago
You should also stick to a workstation linux release. I'm a huge fan of OpenSUSE if you just want hardware to work, it has the hands down best hardware support of any release I've used. The only drawback is every wonky package out there is built for Ubuntu, for example Spotify's linux client. However, if you want a basic system that works, OpenSUSE is the way to go.
na85 9y ago
I stopped tinkering with my system configuration and started using it for the things I want to do as opposed to the things that get in my way. >You can install a Linux distro aimed a people not interested in tinkering and it will likely just work. Ubuntu didn't "just work". Is it aimed at tinkerers?

rimliu 9y ago

Nitpick — it's not Unix-like, it is Unix.

self_awareness 9y ago

I'm actually surprised you didn't like systemd, since it was modelled (in part) after launchd from macOS. Same for systemd utilities like logind; even the name was taken from macOS logind.

na85 9y ago
I find systemd to be an over engineered pile of trash that keeps infecting more and more of the Linux ecosystem because nobody wants to stand up to redhat and their push for more poetteringware

art4ur 9y ago

I haven't had a laptop that doesn't support suspend and resume in years. It's worth looking at again in 2018. It's gotten a lot better.

hutzlibu 9y ago
I also had many ... But allways mixed results. Soostly it worked, bu no allways. But I like to rely on it - and no loose da

O_H_E 9y ago

Interesting, I bought $200 Lenovo laptop: touchpad, suspend, and hibernate all work out of the box