7 ms·

I think this article unfairly paints small companies as some nirvana which is obviously not the case. I have plenty of friends at small companies who feel like

by mlazos 8y ago

I think this article unfairly paints small companies as some nirvana which is obviously not the case. I have plenty of friends at small companies who feel like their c-suite is filled with sociopaths and because the company is under the radar nobody cares how the employees of said company are treated.

fjsolwmv 8y ago
It shard to trust someone whose thesis is that the thing they know intimately is inferior to the thing they are unfamiliar with. The seaweed is always greener...
keithnz 8y ago
I've always enjoyed working at small companies. I've worked at larger companies which have the "level" concept of employees, it's kindda funny to me now :) In my experience at smaller companies you get treated better, you are a more significant factor to the overall success of the company and there is very little corporate crap which often has silly requirements that get justified by a mystical word of being "professional", which often actually seems to achieve the opposite of treating adults as bunch of kids that need to be managed and controlled :) Though I know it also can go very bad for people in small companies that have mini dictators in charge.
- xtracto 8y ago
  >Though I know it also can go very bad for people in small companies that have mini dictators in charge. By definition every company has a dictador. They might be "benevolent" and willing to delegate their power to some degree, but at the end of the day, they have the final say.
hashset 8y ago
not to mention that the difference in money can be life-changing. it is not uncommon to see a 2-3x total comp. multiple as a "level 3" at the referenced companies compared to a small one.
maxxxxx 8y ago
Very true. From my experience as contractor I think bigger companies are often better and more predictable places to work. There are some small companies that are great but a lot of them don't pay well and are run by people who care only about themselves.
- sheepmullet 8y ago
  > From my experience as contractor As a contractor you have essentially already taken a deal where you get paid a premium but have no expectation of career growth. If you have no expectations of career growth at work then big companies are fantastic.
  - maxxxxx 8y ago
    This was not about my career as contractor. It's what I saw how employees were treated. As I said some small companies are great and offer great opportunities but there are plenty that work their people to death, miss payroll, pay low salaries in exchange for a big dream that in most cases will never come true for the regular employee.
    - sheepmullet 8y ago
      > This was not about my career as contractor. My point is you have self selected into a group that doesn't expect career progression at work in the typical sense. Surely that influences what you consider a "better" workplace? > It's what I saw how employees were treated. A big company can be "nice" and yet incredibly soul crushing. I've had years of productive work thrown away over politics. That's far more damaging, personally, than having to work some overtime or being under a bit more day to day stress.
      - ckarmann 8y ago
        I've had a year of productive work thrown away by a clueless and arrogant founder that didn't understand the product he was trying to build and the market and was blaming everyone but himself. So you can have the crazy overtime and the bad management that waste it all. It's not really a question of big and small. Most companies are badly managed (or I am very unlucky). I found in big companies they at least know that making basic efforts to keep employees happy is profitable long-term.
itronitron 8y ago
Yeah, the risk of small companies is that in order to change the scenery you have to leave. A sizable company (>250 people) in which people can move across teams is ideal, this is the main advantage of matrix management structures. Sad to hear about the leveling crap at Google et al. it is truly amazing how significantly HR policies can muck up a company by interfering with it's employees.
cgb223 8y ago
This was definitely my experience at 2/4 of the startups I worked at
taneq 8y ago
Even if the people are great, small (5-20 employee) companies often simply don't have scope for much career progression. You might have one layer of management between yourself and the company owner, so unless they start hiring or you plan on taking over the company, you can only be promoted once.
- marcus_holmes 8y ago
  It's analog promotion, not digital, in a small company. You gradually accumulate authority and responsibility over time. Payrises happen when you manage to convince the owner you need more money, rather than on a HR-managed pay scale. Eventually you'll get a new job title that reflects your current role.
- busterarm 8y ago
  Yeah except your promotion isn't usually a level, it's lead, manager, director, or chief. You leverage that and walk to a slightly larger company in that new role after a couple of years. Then rinse & repeat once or twice and you just shaved off years of slogging through the FAANGs. After all of the above though, I would put 2-3 years in at a FAANG and then do whatever the heck I want.
  - kibibyte 8y ago
    FAANG == Facebook, Apple, Amazon, Netflix, Google (First time I heard of it; had to look it up)
    - knicholes 8y ago
      <removed lame question>
      - midasz 8y ago
        We haven't installed Flash player.
    - WorkLifeBalance 8y ago
siruncledrew 8y ago
There's tons of articles and personal stories that shit on both small and large companies for various reasons, which leads me to believe it's not the size that matters, but the individual (or "view of the beholder").
lliamander 8y ago
I'm still trying to figure out the whole small company scene. I've mostly worked at large (>10k people), though not necessarily hot, tech companies with established tech ladders. Now I'm working at a small (<500 people) SaaS company in a non-tech sector. While there are definitely some perks (including, oddly, better pay) I have some concerns directly related to the size of the company and the lack of a ladder: First, lack of opportunity for specialization. People who reach the top of tech ladders are often genuinely capable specialists in some sub-discipline. One has to specialize to develop mastery. When done well, a tech ladder provides a useful framework within which to cultivate mastery. The question becomes, how do you develop (transferable) mastery in an environment that isn't organized to exploit it? Partly I'm hoping that as the company grows, I can grow my skill set towards and expertise that the company will be prepared to use. Second, when the company is small enough, it's still possible for founders/execs to interfere with even relatively mundane technical decisions. Now, I think the people I work for are quite competent, and I actually have gotten to know them (which wouldn't happen at a big company). I'm just saying that for small companies it can be hard for those at the top to let go of control and switch to a more delegated mode of decision making. EDIT: fixed formatting
- cbcoutinho 8y ago
  I am working at a small company (first job out of school) that is experiencing the growing pains you alluded to in your second point - management wanting to be involved in details across the entire stack, which hinders productivity. I have no idea how to solve this problem, but the fact that you wrote about articulated it makes me think I'm not alone in my experience.
  - wst_ 8y ago
    It has a name - micromanagement.
commandlinefan 8y ago
> paints small companies as some nirvana which is obviously not the case Seconded. At least at big companies, they have defined procedures for promotions and departures (if for no other reason than to cover themselves legally). In small companies things can end up as unpredictable as middle-school politics (and about as mature).

by mlazos 8y ago

fjsolwmv 8y ago

It shard to trust someone whose thesis is that the thing they know intimately is inferior to the thing they are unfamiliar with. The seaweed is always greener...

keithnz 8y ago

I've always enjoyed working at small companies. I've worked at larger companies which have the "level" concept of employees, it's kindda funny to me now :) In my experience at smaller companies you get treated better, you are a more significant factor to the overall success of the company and there is very little corporate crap which often has silly requirements that get justified by a mystical word of being "professional", which often actually seems to achieve the opposite of treating adults as bunch of kids that need to be managed and controlled :) Though I know it also can go very bad for people in small companies that have mini dictators in charge.

xtracto 8y ago
>Though I know it also can go very bad for people in small companies that have mini dictators in charge. By definition every company has a dictador. They might be "benevolent" and willing to delegate their power to some degree, but at the end of the day, they have the final say.

hashset 8y ago

not to mention that the difference in money can be life-changing. it is not uncommon to see a 2-3x total comp. multiple as a "level 3" at the referenced companies compared to a small one.

maxxxxx 8y ago

Very true. From my experience as contractor I think bigger companies are often better and more predictable places to work. There are some small companies that are great but a lot of them don't pay well and are run by people who care only about themselves.

sheepmullet 8y ago
> From my experience as contractor As a contractor you have essentially already taken a deal where you get paid a premium but have no expectation of career growth. If you have no expectations of career growth at work then big companies are fantastic.
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  This was not about my career as contractor. It's what I saw how employees were treated. As I said some small companies are great and offer great opportunities but there are plenty that work their people to death, miss payroll, pay low salaries in exchange for a big dream that in most cases will never come true for the regular employee.
  - sheepmullet 8y ago
    > This was not about my career as contractor. My point is you have self selected into a group that doesn't expect career progression at work in the typical sense. Surely that influences what you consider a "better" workplace? > It's what I saw how employees were treated. A big company can be "nice" and yet incredibly soul crushing. I've had years of productive work thrown away over politics. That's far more damaging, personally, than having to work some overtime or being under a bit more day to day stress.
    - ckarmann 8y ago
      I've had a year of productive work thrown away by a clueless and arrogant founder that didn't understand the product he was trying to build and the market and was blaming everyone but himself. So you can have the crazy overtime and the bad management that waste it all. It's not really a question of big and small. Most companies are badly managed (or I am very unlucky). I found in big companies they at least know that making basic efforts to keep employees happy is profitable long-term.

itronitron 8y ago

Yeah, the risk of small companies is that in order to change the scenery you have to leave. A sizable company (>250 people) in which people can move across teams is ideal, this is the main advantage of matrix management structures. Sad to hear about the leveling crap at Google et al. it is truly amazing how significantly HR policies can muck up a company by interfering with it's employees.

cgb223 8y ago

This was definitely my experience at 2/4 of the startups I worked at

taneq 8y ago

Even if the people are great, small (5-20 employee) companies often simply don't have scope for much career progression. You might have one layer of management between yourself and the company owner, so unless they start hiring or you plan on taking over the company, you can only be promoted once.

marcus_holmes 8y ago
It's analog promotion, not digital, in a small company. You gradually accumulate authority and responsibility over time. Payrises happen when you manage to convince the owner you need more money, rather than on a HR-managed pay scale. Eventually you'll get a new job title that reflects your current role.
busterarm 8y ago
Yeah except your promotion isn't usually a level, it's lead, manager, director, or chief. You leverage that and walk to a slightly larger company in that new role after a couple of years. Then rinse & repeat once or twice and you just shaved off years of slogging through the FAANGs. After all of the above though, I would put 2-3 years in at a FAANG and then do whatever the heck I want.
- kibibyte 8y ago
  FAANG == Facebook, Apple, Amazon, Netflix, Google (First time I heard of it; had to look it up)
  - knicholes 8y ago
    <removed lame question>
    - midasz 8y ago
      We haven't installed Flash player.
  - WorkLifeBalance 8y ago

siruncledrew 8y ago

There's tons of articles and personal stories that shit on both small and large companies for various reasons, which leads me to believe it's not the size that matters, but the individual (or "view of the beholder").

lliamander 8y ago

I'm still trying to figure out the whole small company scene. I've mostly worked at large (>10k people), though not necessarily hot, tech companies with established tech ladders. Now I'm working at a small (<500 people) SaaS company in a non-tech sector. While there are definitely some perks (including, oddly, better pay) I have some concerns directly related to the size of the company and the lack of a ladder: First, lack of opportunity for specialization. People who reach the top of tech ladders are often genuinely capable specialists in some sub-discipline. One has to specialize to develop mastery. When done well, a tech ladder provides a useful framework within which to cultivate mastery. The question becomes, how do you develop (transferable) mastery in an environment that isn't organized to exploit it? Partly I'm hoping that as the company grows, I can grow my skill set towards and expertise that the company will be prepared to use. Second, when the company is small enough, it's still possible for founders/execs to interfere with even relatively mundane technical decisions. Now, I think the people I work for are quite competent, and I actually have gotten to know them (which wouldn't happen at a big company). I'm just saying that for small companies it can be hard for those at the top to let go of control and switch to a more delegated mode of decision making. EDIT: fixed formatting

cbcoutinho 8y ago
I am working at a small company (first job out of school) that is experiencing the growing pains you alluded to in your second point - management wanting to be involved in details across the entire stack, which hinders productivity. I have no idea how to solve this problem, but the fact that you wrote about articulated it makes me think I'm not alone in my experience.
- wst_ 8y ago
  It has a name - micromanagement.

commandlinefan 8y ago

> paints small companies as some nirvana which is obviously not the case Seconded. At least at big companies, they have defined procedures for promotions and departures (if for no other reason than to cover themselves legally). In small companies things can end up as unpredictable as middle-school politics (and about as mature).