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If there’s a need for spectrum enforcement, then people should be out doing it. There’s definitely enough money made from government granted spectrum monopolies

by woah 9y ago

If there’s a need for spectrum enforcement, then people should be out doing it. There’s definitely enough money made from government granted spectrum monopolies to pay for it! The idea that you’re pushing here, that there should be varying degrees of a radio equipment prohibition is anti-knowledge and only serves to strengthen the spectrum monopoly businesses.

TaylorAlexander 9y ago
Here here!
simcop2387 9y ago
Spectrum enforcement does happen. It usually takes a while to identify because there's usually not a large noise source or illegal transmitter. Instead it's usually malfunctioning equipment that's doing stuff it shouldn't. Usually how enforcement happens is that someone complains that this one spot never gets a signal, or their phone always cuts out. Then the big players start getting involved to determine the problem and either get the fcc involved if needed or otherwise inform the offender to get I fixed. That's how stories like this happen, https://www.engadget.com/2016/05/25/florida-man-fined-48k-fcc-jamming-cellphones/ https://www.engadget.com/2016/05/25/florida-man-fined-48k-fc... EDIT: to add there's a lot of unintentional interference sources, neon signs are a typical culprit as they age, http://www.signindustry.com/neon/articles/2004-02-16-RadioFrequency-RC-.php3 http://www.signindustry.com/neon/articles/2004-02-16-RadioFr...
- Something1234 9y ago
  How do I make a complaint about this? There's one spot on my college campus that's completely dead.
  - asclepi 9y ago
    Don't contact the FCC directly. Contact your cellular operator. They can investigate to see if it is a problem on their end. They will also contact the FCC if necessary.
ThrowawayR2 9y ago
> If there’s a need for spectrum enforcement, then people should be out doing it. At least in the US, there are already people doing it and anyone who gets caught is subject to massive fines, e.g.: https://www.computerworld.com/article/2474412/data-privacy/gps-jammer-to-stop-tracking-messed-up-airport-navigation--driver-fired--fined--32-000.html https://www.computerworld.com/article/2474412/data-privacy/g... https://www.engadget.com/2016/05/25/florida-man-fined-48k-fcc-jamming-cellphones/ https://www.engadget.com/2016/05/25/florida-man-fined-48k-fc...
- darkmighty 9y ago
  Those are intentional jamming devices, I hope unintentional sideband interference wouldn't be treated remotely as harshly? The kind of power to achieve this kind of jamming would be pretty large too -- I'd judge at least 50W (depending on the jamming bandwidth I guess). A few miliwatts from an SDR transmitter isn't going to do much disruption. Not to mention there are pretty significant interference sources from defective devices mentioned elsewhere -- cheap usb power supplies, defective lightning, and more. That said, anyone should indeed be filtering their output unless transmitting more than extremely low amounts of power (perhaps someone with radio experience could give a hand of thumb? Up to hundreds of microwatts sounds quite safe) as a matter of civility. Besides, you get to learn basic electronics by building a simple passive filter!
  - jsjohnst 9y ago
    > I'd judge at least 50W GPS is quite easy to jam with very low power. Something as low as 500mW could easily disrupt a fairly wide area. The reason being that GPS signals are generally already below background noise as measured from the ground.
    - Uberphallus 9y ago
      Indeed. When I was experimenting with GPS spoofing, an output of 20dBm (100mW) was enough to make devices think they were in the middle of the ocean in a 200m radius (line of sight). With a quickly improvised yagi antenna I was able to push it to 500m, even after losing 3dB from switching from circular to linear polarization(!). IIRC, GPS satellites have 25W transmitters, that's insanely powerful, but they're 20000Km away, so it's rather easy to overpower their signal from close due to the inverse-square law. Even with the first tests with 10mW in my room, iPhones at my house picked up GPS signal to know the time and timezone, which caused my flatmates to miss appointments and many websites stopped working due to certificates being expired by "2030".
bitwize 9y ago
Any ham will tell you that if you transmit outside the frequency or power ranges for which you're licensed, you'll be getting a call from the FCC.
- f2n 9y ago
  They will say that, despite it having no bearing in reality. The only time the FCC cares is if you're fucking shit up for others.
  - marshray 9y ago
    Yeah completely unrealistic thinking FCC is going to call you. They send out certified letters. Here are a few: https://transition.fcc.gov/eb/AmateurActions/Welcome.html https://transition.fcc.gov/eb/AmateurActions/Welcome.html
    - themodelplumber 9y ago
      That guy in Idaho running a repeater on 146.520, national simplex calling frequency for VHF. Lol. Real genius there, I'll bet it took less than a week before a complaint was filed.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
    - gsich 9y ago
      still using imperial units in 2018
      - tzs 9y ago
        I've read several and didn't see any initial units. Could you be more specific?
        gsich 9y ago
        https://transition.fcc.gov/eb/Orders/2013/DA-13-2235A1.html https://transition.fcc.gov/eb/Orders/2013/DA-13-2235A1.html
johntb86 9y ago
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/12/fcc-tries-to-make-miami-pirate-radio-station-walk-the-plank/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/12/fcc-tries-to-mak...

by woah 9y ago

TaylorAlexander 9y ago

Here here!

simcop2387 9y ago

Spectrum enforcement does happen. It usually takes a while to identify because there's usually not a large noise source or illegal transmitter. Instead it's usually malfunctioning equipment that's doing stuff it shouldn't. Usually how enforcement happens is that someone complains that this one spot never gets a signal, or their phone always cuts out. Then the big players start getting involved to determine the problem and either get the fcc involved if needed or otherwise inform the offender to get I fixed. That's how stories like this happen, https://www.engadget.com/2016/05/25/florida-man-fined-48k-fcc-jamming-cellphones/ https://www.engadget.com/2016/05/25/florida-man-fined-48k-fc... EDIT: to add there's a lot of unintentional interference sources, neon signs are a typical culprit as they age, http://www.signindustry.com/neon/articles/2004-02-16-RadioFrequency-RC-.php3 http://www.signindustry.com/neon/articles/2004-02-16-RadioFr...

Something1234 9y ago
How do I make a complaint about this? There's one spot on my college campus that's completely dead.
- asclepi 9y ago
  Don't contact the FCC directly. Contact your cellular operator. They can investigate to see if it is a problem on their end. They will also contact the FCC if necessary.

ThrowawayR2 9y ago

> If there’s a need for spectrum enforcement, then people should be out doing it. At least in the US, there are already people doing it and anyone who gets caught is subject to massive fines, e.g.: https://www.computerworld.com/article/2474412/data-privacy/gps-jammer-to-stop-tracking-messed-up-airport-navigation--driver-fired--fined--32-000.html https://www.computerworld.com/article/2474412/data-privacy/g... https://www.engadget.com/2016/05/25/florida-man-fined-48k-fcc-jamming-cellphones/ https://www.engadget.com/2016/05/25/florida-man-fined-48k-fc...

darkmighty 9y ago
Those are intentional jamming devices, I hope unintentional sideband interference wouldn't be treated remotely as harshly? The kind of power to achieve this kind of jamming would be pretty large too -- I'd judge at least 50W (depending on the jamming bandwidth I guess). A few miliwatts from an SDR transmitter isn't going to do much disruption. Not to mention there are pretty significant interference sources from defective devices mentioned elsewhere -- cheap usb power supplies, defective lightning, and more. That said, anyone should indeed be filtering their output unless transmitting more than extremely low amounts of power (perhaps someone with radio experience could give a hand of thumb? Up to hundreds of microwatts sounds quite safe) as a matter of civility. Besides, you get to learn basic electronics by building a simple passive filter!
- jsjohnst 9y ago
  > I'd judge at least 50W GPS is quite easy to jam with very low power. Something as low as 500mW could easily disrupt a fairly wide area. The reason being that GPS signals are generally already below background noise as measured from the ground.
  - Uberphallus 9y ago
    Indeed. When I was experimenting with GPS spoofing, an output of 20dBm (100mW) was enough to make devices think they were in the middle of the ocean in a 200m radius (line of sight). With a quickly improvised yagi antenna I was able to push it to 500m, even after losing 3dB from switching from circular to linear polarization(!). IIRC, GPS satellites have 25W transmitters, that's insanely powerful, but they're 20000Km away, so it's rather easy to overpower their signal from close due to the inverse-square law. Even with the first tests with 10mW in my room, iPhones at my house picked up GPS signal to know the time and timezone, which caused my flatmates to miss appointments and many websites stopped working due to certificates being expired by "2030".

bitwize 9y ago

Any ham will tell you that if you transmit outside the frequency or power ranges for which you're licensed, you'll be getting a call from the FCC.

f2n 9y ago
They will say that, despite it having no bearing in reality. The only time the FCC cares is if you're fucking shit up for others.
- marshray 9y ago
  Yeah completely unrealistic thinking FCC is going to call you. They send out certified letters. Here are a few: https://transition.fcc.gov/eb/AmateurActions/Welcome.html https://transition.fcc.gov/eb/AmateurActions/Welcome.html
  - themodelplumber 9y ago
    That guy in Idaho running a repeater on 146.520, national simplex calling frequency for VHF. Lol. Real genius there, I'll bet it took less than a week before a complaint was filed.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - gsich 9y ago
    still using imperial units in 2018
    - tzs 9y ago
      I've read several and didn't see any initial units. Could you be more specific?
      - gsich 9y ago
        https://transition.fcc.gov/eb/Orders/2013/DA-13-2235A1.html https://transition.fcc.gov/eb/Orders/2013/DA-13-2235A1.html

johntb86 9y ago

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/12/fcc-tries-to-make-miami-pirate-radio-station-walk-the-plank/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/12/fcc-tries-to-mak...