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I know it's politically unpopular, but most economists across the political spectrum believe that corporate taxes should be eliminated entirely.[0] It's more ef

by pg_bot 8y ago

I know it's politically unpopular, but most economists across the political spectrum believe that corporate taxes should be eliminated entirely.[0] It's more effective to tax people directly as the corporate tax is extremely volatile and it takes away money that could be productively reinvested. [0] https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2012/07/18/156928675/episode-387-the-no-brainer-economic-platform https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2012/07/18/156928675/epis...

eganist 8y ago
Or, rather than give corporations the option of reinvesting liquidity, we can incentivize reinvestment by taxing the crap out of corporations. I don't understand how the "tax cuts grow reinvestment" argument sways people. Investments into the business are deductible as expenses, meaning doing the exact opposite of a tax cut will actually drive reinvestment far more effectively. Cutting taxes allows for stakeholders to withdraw profits with much less of an incentive to reinvest. Want to drive up the velocity of capital? Cut personal taxes especially on lower bands since people in these bands are more likely to spend that money on essentials and personal luxuries to make life better. Increased spending -- be it at the corporate level on growth, hiring, and research, or at the personal level on necessities and occasional luxuries -- keeps the economic engine going.
- pg_bot 8y ago
  While corporations have the legal obligation to collect and pay taxes, only real people can bear the economic burden of the tax. The people who pay the tax are principally shareholders and workers of the corporation. It is up for debate how this responsibility is distributed but there is a growing body of evidence that the proportion is skewed towards labor, since capital can move more freely than labor.[0] We should expect to see higher wages for labor in that case which is what you seem to be advocating for. [0] http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/publications/capital-income-taxation-and-progressivity-global-economy/full http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/publications/capital-income-t...
bearjaws 8y ago
Except the last tax holiday on corporations resulted in them reinvesting almost all of it into stock buy backs and dividends. The myth that lowering taxes on corporations results in economic growth needs to die. https://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/24/business/worldbusiness/24iht-24tax.13933715.html https://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/24/business/worldbusiness/24... "A 2007 academic study by Roy Clemons, then a graduate student at Texas A&M University, that was based on earlier data, found that the tax break did not stimulate investment in the United States economy and that repatriated money was often used for disallowed purposes, like stock repurchases." https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R40178.pdf https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R40178.pdf "While empirical evidence is clear that this provision resulted in a significant increase in repatriated earnings, empirical evidence is unable to show a corresponding increase in domestic investment or employment"
- YokoZar 8y ago
  When you tax people directly, you recover money earned by people through corporate stock buy backs and dividends. Those are all taxable income.
  - bearjaws 8y ago
    Yes but the goal of the bill (and any time someone brings up reducing taxes on corporations really) was economic grow, which never happened. Also capital gains tax is unfair to lower income individuals. We can invest money and afford to wait a year to see gains (and the obscenely cheap 15% tax rate). Most individuals cannot even invest, yet alone let their money sit for a year.

by pg_bot 8y ago

eganist 8y ago

Or, rather than give corporations the option of reinvesting liquidity, we can incentivize reinvestment by taxing the crap out of corporations. I don't understand how the "tax cuts grow reinvestment" argument sways people. Investments into the business are deductible as expenses, meaning doing the exact opposite of a tax cut will actually drive reinvestment far more effectively. Cutting taxes allows for stakeholders to withdraw profits with much less of an incentive to reinvest. Want to drive up the velocity of capital? Cut personal taxes especially on lower bands since people in these bands are more likely to spend that money on essentials and personal luxuries to make life better. Increased spending -- be it at the corporate level on growth, hiring, and research, or at the personal level on necessities and occasional luxuries -- keeps the economic engine going.

pg_bot 8y ago
While corporations have the legal obligation to collect and pay taxes, only real people can bear the economic burden of the tax. The people who pay the tax are principally shareholders and workers of the corporation. It is up for debate how this responsibility is distributed but there is a growing body of evidence that the proportion is skewed towards labor, since capital can move more freely than labor.[0] We should expect to see higher wages for labor in that case which is what you seem to be advocating for. [0] http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/publications/capital-income-taxation-and-progressivity-global-economy/full http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/publications/capital-income-t...

bearjaws 8y ago

Except the last tax holiday on corporations resulted in them reinvesting almost all of it into stock buy backs and dividends. The myth that lowering taxes on corporations results in economic growth needs to die. https://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/24/business/worldbusiness/24iht-24tax.13933715.html https://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/24/business/worldbusiness/24... "A 2007 academic study by Roy Clemons, then a graduate student at Texas A&M University, that was based on earlier data, found that the tax break did not stimulate investment in the United States economy and that repatriated money was often used for disallowed purposes, like stock repurchases." https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R40178.pdf https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R40178.pdf "While empirical evidence is clear that this provision resulted in a significant increase in repatriated earnings, empirical evidence is unable to show a corresponding increase in domestic investment or employment"

YokoZar 8y ago
When you tax people directly, you recover money earned by people through corporate stock buy backs and dividends. Those are all taxable income.
- bearjaws 8y ago
  Yes but the goal of the bill (and any time someone brings up reducing taxes on corporations really) was economic grow, which never happened. Also capital gains tax is unfair to lower income individuals. We can invest money and afford to wait a year to see gains (and the obscenely cheap 15% tax rate). Most individuals cannot even invest, yet alone let their money sit for a year.