4 ms·

You are already free. The shackles are in your mind. Find meaningful work, whatever your passion is. In practice, you'll likely not starve or become homeless;

by dkural 8y ago

You are already free. The shackles are in your mind. Find meaningful work, whatever your passion is. In practice, you'll likely not starve or become homeless; but simply enjoy more modest means.

lovich 8y ago
My student loan debt doesnt go away if I find meaningful but low paid work. Admittedly it was my choice to take on that debt but on the other hand society had decided that I was too young to responsibly drink and had to pay higher rates on car insurance. Somehow though, I, and everyone else at that age is allowed, and encouraged, to sign up for life altering debt for a piece of paper that got me a job at a call center. Trying to get enough money to retire early now is entirely to make it possible to take on meaningful work instead of the soul crushing jobs that are mosy modern software engineer positions Note: I said modern software engineer _positions_ and not practices as I've found that most companies are incapable politically of implementing best practices if they deviate at all from how things have been done in the past 20 years on the enterprise side, while the startup side is long hours for a lottery ticket.
- LyndsySimon 8y ago
  > the startup side is long hours for a lottery ticket. It certainly can be, but doesn't have to be. The "long hours" part varies greatly depending on your role, responsibilities, and expertise. The "lottery ticket" part varies based on whether you're optimizing for salary or equity. I have always excluded stock options from my decision-making process. Sure, it's possible they could make me rich some day... but it strikes me as highly unlikely, and I'm planning on them being worth $0. Equity I consider a potential negative if the company hasn't had their IPO, due to the tax implications. There are startups out there that offer great salaries and quality of life out there, but you've got to look for that in particular. It also helps if you live or are living to live somewhere with a low cost of living and are willing to work remotely. I live in a small town and there are effectively zero jobs here that I'd want because the market is so small that they can pay much less than I want to accept. Working remotely allows me to compete on the global labor market, where the compensation is substantially higher. I'm not making the same salary I would if I lived in LA or SF, but it's a whole lot closer to that than if I worked for a local employer. The difference in housing costs alone more than makes up for that, much less the total cost of living. Here's a comparison between my employer's location (Santa Monica, CA), and the nearest city to me (Springfield, MO). Note that I live about an hour from Springfield, and the costs here are even lower: https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=United+States&country2=United+States&city1=Springfield%2C+MO&city2=Santa+Monica%2C+CA&tracking=getDispatchComparison https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?cou...
  - lovich 8y ago
    Frankly I'm not sure I'm good enough to get those deals. Whether it's technical skills, negotiating skills, or plain luck I have not been able to get a job that good for me
ahelwer 8y ago
By "the shackles are in your mind" you mean "if you consciously suppress the fact that if you choose to stop working you'll starve and be homeless, you're already free." That isn't freedom, it's living in a fantasy.
- fhood 8y ago
  I think that you are being unfair. There will always be "shackles". Sometimes changing your perspective is more valuable than changing your situation.
  - ahelwer 8y ago
    Nobody is claiming you will be free of all shackles. Everyone has only a slim margin of subjectivity they can use to control the course of their life. An incomplete list of things to which we are subjected, largely outside of our control (which we might call shackles): * Severe medical problems, some resulting in instant death (like an aneurysm rupturing) * Accidents resulting in damage to your person, especially car accidents * Disability, ethnic makeup, sexual preference, parental social class, etc. which restrict opportunities available to you in our current society We aren't talking about any of that. We are talking about things which fall within our margin of subjectivity, which for some fortunate people (especially highly-paid software engineers) includes work. To deny this reality and the terms of your participation is to live inauthentically.
- cko 8y ago
  It really depends. You could really just drop out and be free right now. Live in a tent somewhere and dumpster dive for food. There are so many ways. But the “shackles” of retirement income and medical bills and comfort hold us back. One man’s necessity is another man’s luxury. I envy those people who don’t worry about the future and live the bohemian life - I don’t think they are lying to themselves though. People are diverse.
opencl 8y ago
For I think a vast, vast majority of people this is delusional. For probably over 90% of people whose passion is writing music for example, they will in fact become homeless if they try to make it their only source of income. Even a lot of now-famous actors/singers/etc. ended up homeless for a while as a direct result of this before they hit it big.
- dkural 8y ago
  Having 10% shot at living your dream sounds pretty good to me. Or you could waste your youth at a corporate job, never finding out if you'd make it or not. That's the true tragedy. If you end up broke you could always go back to your white-collar job.

by dkural 8y ago

You are already free. The shackles are in your mind. Find meaningful work, whatever your passion is. In practice, you'll likely not starve or become homeless; but simply enjoy more modest means.

lovich 8y ago

My student loan debt doesnt go away if I find meaningful but low paid work. Admittedly it was my choice to take on that debt but on the other hand society had decided that I was too young to responsibly drink and had to pay higher rates on car insurance. Somehow though, I, and everyone else at that age is allowed, and encouraged, to sign up for life altering debt for a piece of paper that got me a job at a call center. Trying to get enough money to retire early now is entirely to make it possible to take on meaningful work instead of the soul crushing jobs that are mosy modern software engineer positions Note: I said modern software engineer _positions_ and not practices as I've found that most companies are incapable politically of implementing best practices if they deviate at all from how things have been done in the past 20 years on the enterprise side, while the startup side is long hours for a lottery ticket.

LyndsySimon 8y ago
> the startup side is long hours for a lottery ticket. It certainly can be, but doesn't have to be. The "long hours" part varies greatly depending on your role, responsibilities, and expertise. The "lottery ticket" part varies based on whether you're optimizing for salary or equity. I have always excluded stock options from my decision-making process. Sure, it's possible they could make me rich some day... but it strikes me as highly unlikely, and I'm planning on them being worth $0. Equity I consider a potential negative if the company hasn't had their IPO, due to the tax implications. There are startups out there that offer great salaries and quality of life out there, but you've got to look for that in particular. It also helps if you live or are living to live somewhere with a low cost of living and are willing to work remotely. I live in a small town and there are effectively zero jobs here that I'd want because the market is so small that they can pay much less than I want to accept. Working remotely allows me to compete on the global labor market, where the compensation is substantially higher. I'm not making the same salary I would if I lived in LA or SF, but it's a whole lot closer to that than if I worked for a local employer. The difference in housing costs alone more than makes up for that, much less the total cost of living. Here's a comparison between my employer's location (Santa Monica, CA), and the nearest city to me (Springfield, MO). Note that I live about an hour from Springfield, and the costs here are even lower: https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=United+States&country2=United+States&city1=Springfield%2C+MO&city2=Santa+Monica%2C+CA&tracking=getDispatchComparison https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?cou...
- lovich 8y ago
  Frankly I'm not sure I'm good enough to get those deals. Whether it's technical skills, negotiating skills, or plain luck I have not been able to get a job that good for me

ahelwer 8y ago

By "the shackles are in your mind" you mean "if you consciously suppress the fact that if you choose to stop working you'll starve and be homeless, you're already free." That isn't freedom, it's living in a fantasy.

fhood 8y ago
I think that you are being unfair. There will always be "shackles". Sometimes changing your perspective is more valuable than changing your situation.
- ahelwer 8y ago
  Nobody is claiming you will be free of all shackles. Everyone has only a slim margin of subjectivity they can use to control the course of their life. An incomplete list of things to which we are subjected, largely outside of our control (which we might call shackles): * Severe medical problems, some resulting in instant death (like an aneurysm rupturing) * Accidents resulting in damage to your person, especially car accidents * Disability, ethnic makeup, sexual preference, parental social class, etc. which restrict opportunities available to you in our current society We aren't talking about any of that. We are talking about things which fall within our margin of subjectivity, which for some fortunate people (especially highly-paid software engineers) includes work. To deny this reality and the terms of your participation is to live inauthentically.
cko 8y ago
It really depends. You could really just drop out and be free right now. Live in a tent somewhere and dumpster dive for food. There are so many ways. But the “shackles” of retirement income and medical bills and comfort hold us back. One man’s necessity is another man’s luxury. I envy those people who don’t worry about the future and live the bohemian life - I don’t think they are lying to themselves though. People are diverse.

opencl 8y ago

For I think a vast, vast majority of people this is delusional. For probably over 90% of people whose passion is writing music for example, they will in fact become homeless if they try to make it their only source of income. Even a lot of now-famous actors/singers/etc. ended up homeless for a while as a direct result of this before they hit it big.

dkural 8y ago
Having 10% shot at living your dream sounds pretty good to me. Or you could waste your youth at a corporate job, never finding out if you'd make it or not. That's the true tragedy. If you end up broke you could always go back to your white-collar job.