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Fascinating. I have a keen interest in Shamanism and more patience for "woo-woo" here than most. Navigating your dream state is a mighty Shamanic concept. It is

Fascinating. I have a keen interest in Shamanism and more patience for "woo-woo" here than most. Navigating your dream state is a mighty Shamanic concept. It is one of two Shamanic practices that people here will entertain. The other is the idea of the memory castle. New technological approaches like this will help us peel back the veil of the tangible, 'ordinary' realities of which we are comfortable. The world will be a much more funky and weird place once we realize there are non-ordinaries realities that we can explore, too.

mjburgess 8y ago
I think the converse is true, no? That the shamanic practices will be pealed back, to reveal the familiar reality of scientific investigation. I've had many lucid dreams, sleep paralysis, etc. "Navigating your dream state" seems really just like a lucid dream. You're pretty much able to create a life-like world at whim in a lucid dream. The ability of the mind to hallucinate sensation in great depth is tremendous, and im sure, tied deeply to dreaming.
- goodroot 8y ago
  That is an excellent point. I do agree that the converse is true. Together, now we are talking.
- psyc 8y ago
  The advantage to opening yourself to what is loosely called 'right brained' thinking, is that you don't have to wait around for someone to publish a rigorous study in a journal about the subject you're seeking a solution for. If I waited around for science as much as some HN users imply they do, I'd be paralyzed and barely ever make progress on things that matter to me. I believe great scientists often start in wooville before they are able to distill science out of it. “Why should not a bold thinker have guessed something that is afterwards confirmed by sober and painstaking detailed research?” -Freud
  - mjburgess 8y ago
    The generation of hypotheses is "right-brained thinking" in these terms. Science is a process which includes the creative step of imagining a solution/explanation. The differentiation between science and "systematic religous doctrine" is not in the character of the people, nor particularly in the way they think. Only that the scientist has an additional goal/duty to test his explanations.
- thisiszilff 8y ago
  I don't think science will be able to say as much on the subject as one would like. "Navigating your own dream state" is a person making decisions about a world they themselves have created. There isn't much room for an objective observer there. In general, I don't think science is ever going to get a grip on consciousness. The whole "self observing the self" business makes it way too slippery a concept to get a grasp on in any satisfactory manor.
iamcasen 8y ago
That's honestly what I was thinking while reading this. Shamans, and other types who are extremely skilled with meditation have control over their minds and bodies that is extraordinary. They can navigate dream states, explore their own bodily function, and perhaps even go to places we can't imagine. Certain drugs like DMT, Mushrooms, or LSD are essentially performance enhancing drugs when it comes to those powers of meditation, and they allow ordinary folks a glimpse of what the human mind/body is capable of.
be_jenk 8y ago
I would love some reading recommendations on these topics if you would be willing to recommend anything.
- monomyth 8y ago
  any/all of Joseph Campbell Works by Robert Monroe https://www.amazon.com/Robert-A.-Monroe/e/B000AQ8V5A https://www.amazon.com/Robert-A.-Monroe/e/B000AQ8V5A Works by Dr. Lilly https://www.amazon.com/Center-Cyclone-Looking-Inner-Space/dp/1579510388 https://www.amazon.com/Center-Cyclone-Looking-Inner-Space/dp... Carlos Castanteda (take it with a grain of salt :) https://www.amazon.com/Carlos-Castaneda/e/B000APXVFG/ https://www.amazon.com/Carlos-Castaneda/e/B000APXVFG/ D. Scott Rogo's "Leaving Body" is good compilation of various techniques https://www.amazon.com/Leaving-Body-D-Scott-Rogo/dp/0671763946 https://www.amazon.com/Leaving-Body-D-Scott-Rogo/dp/06717639...
- moj 8y ago
  "The Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep" by Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche is excellent. The terminology can feel alien or intimidating, but if you're receptive you can see results quickly. Bonus: The author & his organization give many workshops, in the US and abroad, even online.
  - spraak 8y ago
    Awesome to see someone else familiar with Rinpoche. I came in this thread to mention it. Also worth noting is that they have two Youtube channels [1] [2] that they regularly share guided meditations from. [1] https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvtLfdR8gIVmdVVYsDcon_A https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvtLfdR8gIVmdVVYsDcon_A [2] https://www.youtube.com/user/ligmincha https://www.youtube.com/user/ligmincha
- goodroot 8y ago
  Hello! I have written a blog on this topic. It relates to work I have done working with Shaman and plant medicines in Peru. Here you go: https://goodroot.ca/post/2018/03/06/the-garden-axiom/ https://goodroot.ca/post/2018/03/06/the-garden-axiom/ !

mjburgess 8y ago

I think the converse is true, no? That the shamanic practices will be pealed back, to reveal the familiar reality of scientific investigation. I've had many lucid dreams, sleep paralysis, etc. "Navigating your dream state" seems really just like a lucid dream. You're pretty much able to create a life-like world at whim in a lucid dream. The ability of the mind to hallucinate sensation in great depth is tremendous, and im sure, tied deeply to dreaming.

goodroot 8y ago
That is an excellent point. I do agree that the converse is true. Together, now we are talking.
psyc 8y ago
The advantage to opening yourself to what is loosely called 'right brained' thinking, is that you don't have to wait around for someone to publish a rigorous study in a journal about the subject you're seeking a solution for. If I waited around for science as much as some HN users imply they do, I'd be paralyzed and barely ever make progress on things that matter to me. I believe great scientists often start in wooville before they are able to distill science out of it. “Why should not a bold thinker have guessed something that is afterwards confirmed by sober and painstaking detailed research?” -Freud
- mjburgess 8y ago
  The generation of hypotheses is "right-brained thinking" in these terms. Science is a process which includes the creative step of imagining a solution/explanation. The differentiation between science and "systematic religous doctrine" is not in the character of the people, nor particularly in the way they think. Only that the scientist has an additional goal/duty to test his explanations.
thisiszilff 8y ago
I don't think science will be able to say as much on the subject as one would like. "Navigating your own dream state" is a person making decisions about a world they themselves have created. There isn't much room for an objective observer there. In general, I don't think science is ever going to get a grip on consciousness. The whole "self observing the self" business makes it way too slippery a concept to get a grasp on in any satisfactory manor.

iamcasen 8y ago

That's honestly what I was thinking while reading this. Shamans, and other types who are extremely skilled with meditation have control over their minds and bodies that is extraordinary. They can navigate dream states, explore their own bodily function, and perhaps even go to places we can't imagine. Certain drugs like DMT, Mushrooms, or LSD are essentially performance enhancing drugs when it comes to those powers of meditation, and they allow ordinary folks a glimpse of what the human mind/body is capable of.

be_jenk 8y ago

I would love some reading recommendations on these topics if you would be willing to recommend anything.

monomyth 8y ago
any/all of Joseph Campbell Works by Robert Monroe https://www.amazon.com/Robert-A.-Monroe/e/B000AQ8V5A https://www.amazon.com/Robert-A.-Monroe/e/B000AQ8V5A Works by Dr. Lilly https://www.amazon.com/Center-Cyclone-Looking-Inner-Space/dp/1579510388 https://www.amazon.com/Center-Cyclone-Looking-Inner-Space/dp... Carlos Castanteda (take it with a grain of salt :) https://www.amazon.com/Carlos-Castaneda/e/B000APXVFG/ https://www.amazon.com/Carlos-Castaneda/e/B000APXVFG/ D. Scott Rogo's "Leaving Body" is good compilation of various techniques https://www.amazon.com/Leaving-Body-D-Scott-Rogo/dp/0671763946 https://www.amazon.com/Leaving-Body-D-Scott-Rogo/dp/06717639...
moj 8y ago
"The Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep" by Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche is excellent. The terminology can feel alien or intimidating, but if you're receptive you can see results quickly. Bonus: The author & his organization give many workshops, in the US and abroad, even online.
- spraak 8y ago
  Awesome to see someone else familiar with Rinpoche. I came in this thread to mention it. Also worth noting is that they have two Youtube channels [1] [2] that they regularly share guided meditations from. [1] https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvtLfdR8gIVmdVVYsDcon_A https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvtLfdR8gIVmdVVYsDcon_A [2] https://www.youtube.com/user/ligmincha https://www.youtube.com/user/ligmincha
goodroot 8y ago
Hello! I have written a blog on this topic. It relates to work I have done working with Shaman and plant medicines in Peru. Here you go: https://goodroot.ca/post/2018/03/06/the-garden-axiom/ https://goodroot.ca/post/2018/03/06/the-garden-axiom/ !