3 ms·

You think he obtained American citizenship because he likes the USA more than any other country, including his home one? You don't know his motives. Maybe he j

You think he obtained American citizenship because he likes the USA more than any other country, including his home one? You don't know his motives. Maybe he just did it because it's more convenient for him to currently work there, and constantly having to organise visas was a pain in the arse? For all we know he hates the USA...?

sp332 16y ago
It's gotta be really, really "convenient" to be worth the hassle of arranging visas over the last 14 years (since he started working at Transmeta in California in 1996). Citizenship might be less paperwork, but there are other downsides he's taking on as a citizen.
gojomo 16y ago
For all we know he hates the USA...? For all we know, he's the first in a series of genetically-engineered Finnish super-programmers, part of a growing sleeper cell of infiltrators hell(sinki)-bent on Finlandizing the USA via secret trapdoors in their code, all waiting for the flip of a single bit to instantly erase all memory of the Constitution and replace it with a Scandinavian welfare-state, then killing our leaders and converting us all to the Evangelical Lutheran Church of Finland -- their state religion! Or maybe he just likes living with his family in the Pacific Northwest. It's hard to tell, for all we know!
- mike-cardwell 16y ago
  Exactly!
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
  - gojomo 16y ago
    And to bring it all back around: that an exceptional person who could easily choose to live in comfort in dozens of countries, chooses to live in the USA, is a legitimate source of pride for the locals. The number one product of a legal jurisdiction is providing a desirable place to live. The political system is designed to make citizens feel like the local jurisdiction is 'their' product. When your target market embraces your product, pride is natural and healthy. An immigrant doesn't have to 'love' the USA more than the mother country; indeed the freedom to still love the ancestral land but build cool stuff here is one of the USA's greatest hacks. (Brain drain FTW!) The immigrant's children will 'love' their new land; that's more like a chick imprinting than any rational choice.
    - mike-cardwell 16y ago
      It must be a cultural thing then. I can't personally imagine ever being proud of someone moving to the UK (where I live). I understand that Americans place a much higher value on patriotism than most of the developed World though. It's bigger than that though. The whole concept of feeling proud about something to which you had no input seems very strange to me.
      - viraptor 16y ago
        > to which you had no input That depends. I assume you are the most google'able Mike from Bath Spa. I stayed in UK to finish Bath Uni, so lecturers from there could probably feel proud of creating an environment where I felt welcome enough to stay for a longer time. It was their input into my environment and education and it did make a difference, because I still live in Bath. Then again, this would be a personal situation and not "I feel proud, because some known guy wants to live in my country".
      - gojomo 16y ago
        Well, the animating idea of modern democracies is that we do have input into governance. (Whether that's a foundational truism or a useful myth is a separate issue -- people are supposed to believe they have input, and most do believe that.) At least some of the difference between the governance of Portland versus Houston, or California versus Texas, or the USA versus the UK or Finland, is due to different preferences of the governed. And, even ignoring formal political 'input' (or the simulacrum of same), we all make the culture and economy as neighbors and workers. When a smart, productive, and freedom-loving person with many options chooses to live closer to me, under the same standing rules, it's a positive indicator about my desirability as a neighbor and an external validator of choices I've made previously. Hence, 'pride'.
- barrkel 16y ago
  evl.fi - very suspicious domain name for a church.
influx 16y ago
I think this blog post goes a long way to explaining part of it: http://torvalds-family.blogspot.com/2008/10/stranger-in-strange-land.html http://torvalds-family.blogspot.com/2008/10/stranger-in-stra...

sp332 16y ago

It's gotta be really, really "convenient" to be worth the hassle of arranging visas over the last 14 years (since he started working at Transmeta in California in 1996). Citizenship might be less paperwork, but there are other downsides he's taking on as a citizen.

gojomo 16y ago

For all we know he hates the USA...? For all we know, he's the first in a series of genetically-engineered Finnish super-programmers, part of a growing sleeper cell of infiltrators hell(sinki)-bent on Finlandizing the USA via secret trapdoors in their code, all waiting for the flip of a single bit to instantly erase all memory of the Constitution and replace it with a Scandinavian welfare-state, then killing our leaders and converting us all to the Evangelical Lutheran Church of Finland -- their state religion! Or maybe he just likes living with his family in the Pacific Northwest. It's hard to tell, for all we know!

mike-cardwell 16y ago
Exactly!
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- gojomo 16y ago
  And to bring it all back around: that an exceptional person who could easily choose to live in comfort in dozens of countries, chooses to live in the USA, is a legitimate source of pride for the locals. The number one product of a legal jurisdiction is providing a desirable place to live. The political system is designed to make citizens feel like the local jurisdiction is 'their' product. When your target market embraces your product, pride is natural and healthy. An immigrant doesn't have to 'love' the USA more than the mother country; indeed the freedom to still love the ancestral land but build cool stuff here is one of the USA's greatest hacks. (Brain drain FTW!) The immigrant's children will 'love' their new land; that's more like a chick imprinting than any rational choice.
  - mike-cardwell 16y ago
    It must be a cultural thing then. I can't personally imagine ever being proud of someone moving to the UK (where I live). I understand that Americans place a much higher value on patriotism than most of the developed World though. It's bigger than that though. The whole concept of feeling proud about something to which you had no input seems very strange to me.
    - viraptor 16y ago
      > to which you had no input That depends. I assume you are the most google'able Mike from Bath Spa. I stayed in UK to finish Bath Uni, so lecturers from there could probably feel proud of creating an environment where I felt welcome enough to stay for a longer time. It was their input into my environment and education and it did make a difference, because I still live in Bath. Then again, this would be a personal situation and not "I feel proud, because some known guy wants to live in my country".
    - gojomo 16y ago
      Well, the animating idea of modern democracies is that we do have input into governance. (Whether that's a foundational truism or a useful myth is a separate issue -- people are supposed to believe they have input, and most do believe that.) At least some of the difference between the governance of Portland versus Houston, or California versus Texas, or the USA versus the UK or Finland, is due to different preferences of the governed. And, even ignoring formal political 'input' (or the simulacrum of same), we all make the culture and economy as neighbors and workers. When a smart, productive, and freedom-loving person with many options chooses to live closer to me, under the same standing rules, it's a positive indicator about my desirability as a neighbor and an external validator of choices I've made previously. Hence, 'pride'.
barrkel 16y ago
evl.fi - very suspicious domain name for a church.

influx 16y ago

I think this blog post goes a long way to explaining part of it: http://torvalds-family.blogspot.com/2008/10/stranger-in-strange-land.html http://torvalds-family.blogspot.com/2008/10/stranger-in-stra...