5 ms·

Or being so inflexible with regard to immigration that the only way to work there without facing immediate deportation if you change jobs is to become a citizen

by kiuyhjk 16y ago

Or being so inflexible with regard to immigration that the only way to work there without facing immediate deportation if you change jobs is to become a citizen. I can live and work permanently in 27 countries (including Finland) without having to change nationality.

avar 16y ago
I'm pretty sure it's 30. I have an Icelandic citizenship (Iceland is one of the 30 in the EEA), and I'm working freely in one of the 27 EU countries currently. All I had to do after I moves was to register with the local city authorities to indicate that I had moved there, and provide documentation proving that I had a job so that they knew they didn't have to put me on social security. One might also make the counterpoint that while we can move between 30 states in the EEA US citizens can move between 50 states in their union, and their superstate comprises almost twice the surface area of the EU.
- fortes 16y ago
  US is almost twice the size (1/6 of which is Alaska), but the EEA has 60% more people, which is probably a better measure of jobs.
- kiuyhjk 16y ago
  There are some differences, a US friend of mine did law in the UK which meant she could work anywhere from Finland to Greece. But when she passed the New York bar she couldn't work in New Jersey.
  - roel_v 16y ago
    No. She could 'work in law' in the same way in New Jersey as she could in Greece - as a 'jurist' or 'company lawyer', but not initiate court proceeding. Being admitted to the bar in one Member State does not automatically mean admittance to the bar in another Member State, nor does it even mean that one is eligible to just take the bar exam in that other Member State (although this last part is under proceedings before the European Court for restricting movement of persons within the Union. In contrast, one doesn't even need a law school degree to be able to take the bar exam in any US state. (admittedly it's almost impossible to pass without one).
    - dctoedt 16y ago
      > one doesn't even need a law school degree to be able to take the bar exam in any US state Not quite: In a number of US states, a prerequisite to taking the bar exam is either graduation from an ABA-accredited law school, or a foreign law degree with additional training in a U.S. school. See Chart III at http://www.ncbex.org/fileadmin/mediafiles/downloads/Comp_Guide/CompGuide_2010.pdf#page=22 http://www.ncbex.org/fileadmin/mediafiles/downloads/Comp_Gui... and the supplemental remarks afterwards, also Chart X.
      - roel_v 16y ago
        I stand corrected, thank you.
  - arethuza 16y ago
    Not as a qualified lawyer she couldn't - even within the UK there are different legal systems that require you to qualify separately. There is a lot more to being a lawyer/solicitor than getting a law degree. (e.g. Here in Scotland it is a further post graduate qualification plus two years training in a law firm before you qualify).
apgwoz 16y ago
> I can live and work permanently in 27 countries (including Finland) without having to change nationality. How? I'd love to be able to do that.
- mike-cardwell 16y ago
  By living in a European country.
  - apgwoz 16y ago
    I'm not sure why we're both getting downvoted for this. It was a valid question, and a valid response. Thanks for the answer. I did not realize the EU had this privilege.
    - mike-cardwell 16y ago
      I suspect in my case it is because I said "European country" rather than "European Union country." Not all European countries are in the EU. The Wikipedia article on the EU has all sorts of interesting information: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/European_Union https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/European_Unio...
      - apgwoz 16y ago
        Sure--but, if that's the case, you'd think someone would reply and correct you, instead of just blatantly down voting an otherwise "get the point across answer", and forcing you to speculate. :)
- ugh 16y ago
  He is a EU Citizen. That’s not that much better than the freedom to work or live wherever you want within the US. It only sounds so impressive because those 27 nations are all substantially smaller than the US. It’s nonetheless one of those achievements of European integration I most certainly don’t want to give up.
borism 16y ago
good for you, too bad the same flexibility does not apply to non-EU/EEA citizens like me who work legally in one of those countries but moving between them is nonetheless quite PIA.
jbarham 16y ago
Incorrect. Green card holders (i.e., US permanent residents, but non-citizens) do not face "immediate deportation" if they change jobs.
- kiuyhjk 16y ago
  No but it's still a hassle not being a citizen - especially if you travel a lot. By contrast Canadian permanent residents are treated exactly the same as citizens - except you can't vote in federal elections. Although with the choices on offer that's probably a blessing !
  - _delirium 16y ago
    That's not the case with my family, at least. My mom was a green-card holder for almost 40 years until she finally got her citizenship a few years ago, and there was never any real hassle. She eventually got her citizenship mostly to simplify retirement planning (if she and my dad, who's a U.S.-born citizen, had different citizenships, apparently things get complicated with things like pensions and survivorship). I guess that's a kind of hassle, but a very cerebral one; she didn't get hassled at customs or anything, at least any more than I do. Probably being a middle-aged woman with an American family made her fit a low-risk profile anyway, but becoming a citizen has basically made no difference for her on that side of things.
    - jasonlotito 16y ago
      I think that's the kind of hassle he was referring to. =)
    - kiuyhjk 16y ago
      Never had a green card - but going in and out of the USA on a european country passport with an H1-B was always a hassle. Especially one return from a conference where the minimum-wage-moron on passport control didn't understand the concept of visas (to be fair he had a limited understanding of the concept of passports or even other countries) and allowed me in for 24 hours which I spent queuing at LA's delightful immigration office downtown. Still, well done to him for protecting the USA from another foreign Caltech physics prof.
philwelch 16y ago
To be fair, that's like saying I can live in and work permanently in 50 states and a handful of territories, protectorates, and possessions without having to change nationality.
nandemo 16y ago
The funny thing is that in practice US must be the most flexible developed country regarding immigration. There are more than 12 millions illegal immigrants in US. Illegal immigrants owns houses, driver cars and go to college. I find it amazing. In Japan, if you're an illegal immigrant you're pretty much relegated to the underworld.

by kiuyhjk 16y ago

avar 16y ago

I'm pretty sure it's 30. I have an Icelandic citizenship (Iceland is one of the 30 in the EEA), and I'm working freely in one of the 27 EU countries currently. All I had to do after I moves was to register with the local city authorities to indicate that I had moved there, and provide documentation proving that I had a job so that they knew they didn't have to put me on social security. One might also make the counterpoint that while we can move between 30 states in the EEA US citizens can move between 50 states in their union, and their superstate comprises almost twice the surface area of the EU.

fortes 16y ago
US is almost twice the size (1/6 of which is Alaska), but the EEA has 60% more people, which is probably a better measure of jobs.
kiuyhjk 16y ago
There are some differences, a US friend of mine did law in the UK which meant she could work anywhere from Finland to Greece. But when she passed the New York bar she couldn't work in New Jersey.
- roel_v 16y ago
  No. She could 'work in law' in the same way in New Jersey as she could in Greece - as a 'jurist' or 'company lawyer', but not initiate court proceeding. Being admitted to the bar in one Member State does not automatically mean admittance to the bar in another Member State, nor does it even mean that one is eligible to just take the bar exam in that other Member State (although this last part is under proceedings before the European Court for restricting movement of persons within the Union. In contrast, one doesn't even need a law school degree to be able to take the bar exam in any US state. (admittedly it's almost impossible to pass without one).
  - dctoedt 16y ago
    > one doesn't even need a law school degree to be able to take the bar exam in any US state Not quite: In a number of US states, a prerequisite to taking the bar exam is either graduation from an ABA-accredited law school, or a foreign law degree with additional training in a U.S. school. See Chart III at http://www.ncbex.org/fileadmin/mediafiles/downloads/Comp_Guide/CompGuide_2010.pdf#page=22 http://www.ncbex.org/fileadmin/mediafiles/downloads/Comp_Gui... and the supplemental remarks afterwards, also Chart X.
    - roel_v 16y ago
      I stand corrected, thank you.
- arethuza 16y ago
  Not as a qualified lawyer she couldn't - even within the UK there are different legal systems that require you to qualify separately. There is a lot more to being a lawyer/solicitor than getting a law degree. (e.g. Here in Scotland it is a further post graduate qualification plus two years training in a law firm before you qualify).

apgwoz 16y ago

> I can live and work permanently in 27 countries (including Finland) without having to change nationality. How? I'd love to be able to do that.

mike-cardwell 16y ago
By living in a European country.
- apgwoz 16y ago
  I'm not sure why we're both getting downvoted for this. It was a valid question, and a valid response. Thanks for the answer. I did not realize the EU had this privilege.
  - mike-cardwell 16y ago
    I suspect in my case it is because I said "European country" rather than "European Union country." Not all European countries are in the EU. The Wikipedia article on the EU has all sorts of interesting information: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/European_Union https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/European_Unio...
    - apgwoz 16y ago
      Sure--but, if that's the case, you'd think someone would reply and correct you, instead of just blatantly down voting an otherwise "get the point across answer", and forcing you to speculate. :)
ugh 16y ago
He is a EU Citizen. That’s not that much better than the freedom to work or live wherever you want within the US. It only sounds so impressive because those 27 nations are all substantially smaller than the US. It’s nonetheless one of those achievements of European integration I most certainly don’t want to give up.

borism 16y ago

good for you, too bad the same flexibility does not apply to non-EU/EEA citizens like me who work legally in one of those countries but moving between them is nonetheless quite PIA.

jbarham 16y ago

Incorrect. Green card holders (i.e., US permanent residents, but non-citizens) do not face "immediate deportation" if they change jobs.

kiuyhjk 16y ago
No but it's still a hassle not being a citizen - especially if you travel a lot. By contrast Canadian permanent residents are treated exactly the same as citizens - except you can't vote in federal elections. Although with the choices on offer that's probably a blessing !
- _delirium 16y ago
  That's not the case with my family, at least. My mom was a green-card holder for almost 40 years until she finally got her citizenship a few years ago, and there was never any real hassle. She eventually got her citizenship mostly to simplify retirement planning (if she and my dad, who's a U.S.-born citizen, had different citizenships, apparently things get complicated with things like pensions and survivorship). I guess that's a kind of hassle, but a very cerebral one; she didn't get hassled at customs or anything, at least any more than I do. Probably being a middle-aged woman with an American family made her fit a low-risk profile anyway, but becoming a citizen has basically made no difference for her on that side of things.
  - jasonlotito 16y ago
    I think that's the kind of hassle he was referring to. =)
  - kiuyhjk 16y ago
    Never had a green card - but going in and out of the USA on a european country passport with an H1-B was always a hassle. Especially one return from a conference where the minimum-wage-moron on passport control didn't understand the concept of visas (to be fair he had a limited understanding of the concept of passports or even other countries) and allowed me in for 24 hours which I spent queuing at LA's delightful immigration office downtown. Still, well done to him for protecting the USA from another foreign Caltech physics prof.

philwelch 16y ago

To be fair, that's like saying I can live in and work permanently in 50 states and a handful of territories, protectorates, and possessions without having to change nationality.

nandemo 16y ago

The funny thing is that in practice US must be the most flexible developed country regarding immigration. There are more than 12 millions illegal immigrants in US. Illegal immigrants owns houses, driver cars and go to college. I find it amazing. In Japan, if you're an illegal immigrant you're pretty much relegated to the underworld.